jump to navigation

Can I be a Christian and be Gay? February 12, 2010

Posted by Henry in Relationships.
Tags: , , , , ,
trackback

I never thought I would see the day when Britain, which was largely considered to be a Christian country, which was responsible for sending many missionaries to spread Christianity to distant lands, would legalise gay marriages. Nevertheless it’s the states’ prerogative to do as the state wishes. What I am appalled about however is that the church, the Church of England that is, and sister churches would appoint openly gay bishops/priests whose responsibility it is to shepherd the flock. I am appalled that the church can send the wrong message that one can be gay and be in a relationship whilst claiming to be following Christ at the same time. Now this has nothing to do with preaching hate (as some might want to claim) but everything to do with what God’s Word, the Bible, the very foundation of our faith teaches. If we can selectively cut certain sections of the Bible out as it suits us then why bother to follow it or claim to follow it? Let me state categorically here that I do not have a problem with gays anymore than I do with an adulterer or a thief, for all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. The Lord told us to hate the sin but not the sinner and therefore I love gays too, which is why I am addressing this topic as I would like to see them come to the knowledge of truth in Christ.

 The first question to be answered here is whether being gay is a sin. I know some people will want to say that they were born that way and that God loves them as they are. However, whilst I will agree that God do love everyone hence the reason He sent His Son to die on the cross (John 3:16), I do not accept that God looks favourably on their sexuality. So what do we know from scripture? Quoting from the NIV version we read in Romans 1:26-27:

 26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 Reading on to verse 32 we read that those who do such things along with all the other sins mentioned are “worthy of death”. Indeed scripture tells us that the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23). This is the ‘death’ that verse 32 of chapter one is talking about (in case anyone is of the mistaken belief that I am advocating violence against gays). According to the scriptures we are all sinners who were worthy of death but may have Life through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross if we believe the Gospel, confess our sins and repent. Do not be deceived therefore into thinking that you can be in a “loving gay relationship” and inherit eternal life. This is a lie from the pit of hell. It is stated clearly in scriptures, 1 Cor 6 that sinners including homosexuals cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven:

 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12 “Everything is permissible for me”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.

What then? Can you continue to claim to be a “gay Christian” and not heed scriptures? Some of you might say you can’t help being gay but Paul says, “Everything is permissible for me but I will not be mastered by anything”. This is the challenge that all of us have to face as Christians in overcoming sin. The good news is that because Jesus Christ has overcome the world, we too can overcome the world.

Advertisements

Comments»

1. glasseyedave - February 13, 2010

To sin or not to sin that is the question.

Maybe you are like me and have heard fellow Christians and Pastors talk about a life of sin or those habitual sins? I know for me I still find myself in conversations that talk about sin in this context.
It is funny to me, we believers try to quantify how much sin is acceptable to God and how much not. Of course we will never agree to how much of what type of sin is acceptable because we all have different points of view on what sins are the most grievous.
Have we forgotten the instructions we have received?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
It is not funny to me, that the whole discussion is essentially, how much can we make God put up with our sins, but yet never cross the line where He says, “You’re out of here!” Either because you believe you were never saved in the first place and one’s life shows it, or you may be in the other camp saying one lost their salvation.
(This blog’s purpose is to show that we as Christians do not posses salvation yet, so both views above are not The Gospel According to the Gospel.
http://thegospelaccordingtothegospel.wordpress.com/posses-salvation/)
In either case the result is the same for many believers, a lifestyle of acceptable sins and acceptable degrees of sin because God knows we are sinners. The proof of this is in the pudding. How many sermon topics deal with our fallen nature and our need to live like believers should? Of course, I know that it is out of style to preach about holiness anymore, so we talk about controlling our anger, loving our wives and don’t drink, smoke and chew or go out with girls that do.
And this is where once again I find myself saying, “I was sold a different gospel.” What I read in scripture for the believers is not a definition of the degree of sin, nor the quantity that is acceptable for the reborn in Christ. Instead I read that he who sins is of the devil! Not a growing Christian as so many have put it. I read that anyone born of God can not sin. If I were to say it another way it would be can not, can not, can not.
So do I accept the gospel of man where Christians discus sin as if there is a degree of acceptability in a believer’s life for sin, as long as they are trying to grow? Or do I believe in The Gospel According to the Gospel which states:
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
For me I can no longer participate in conversations concerning what is a sinful lifestyle. I just want to live and be transformed like a real believer. If we can not sin if we remain in Him and those who sin are the children of the devil, why should any of us play with fire?

2. Henry - February 13, 2010

Hi glasseyedave,

Thanks for stopping by. Interesting write up though off topic to a degree. But can I ask you, would you say you are the perfect believer and have not sinned since this “new revelation” that you have had? Noting of course that you said, “I just want to live and be transformed like a real believer.”

God Bless

3. glasseyedave - February 13, 2010

Thanks for your reply Henry. No I can not say that I am a perfect believer since I first put my hope held out in the gospel.

What I do see in the gospel is a different believer than what we accept as a believer today. My comments from the other day is one of these contrast. Jesus calls us to perfect as His Father is perfect.

Jesus says believer will be saved and those who do not believe will be condemned, to this we all say amen. But right after this Jesus says these signs will follow believers and He lays them out.

There are other things that I see in scripture that speaks of a believer I have not seen in myself. It is like a higher calling. Can I not only seek God, but also reach out and find Him? I believe we all can.

Jesus gives us examples of those who thought they were in like flynn with Him. He says many will be left outside who thought they were ok eternally. If I see a higher standard or calling in scripture for the believer as the type of what Christians can be, I think it would do us some good to reflect on this. After all Paul talks this way about sin as well.

Hebrews teaches us those in the desert who had experienced God like none of ever had, didn’t go in because of sin and unbelief. I don’t want to be anywhere near any of that.

Thanks for your ear.

4. Rachel - February 15, 2010

Thanks for your great comments, Henry. You are an excellent scholar and I agree with you. Re the rapture debate, I found some related articles on Google, namely, “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Pretrib Rapture – Hidden Facts,” “Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice,” and “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty” – all by journalist/historian Dave MacPherson whose book “The Rapture Plot” (obtainable at Armageddon Books online), which I have read, is the most detailed and documented book on pretrib rapture history I know of anywhere. BTW, an excellent Google article exposing the “gay” rights issue is “God to Same-Sexers: Hurry Up” – and “Separation of Raunch and State” is a good one also. Lord bless, let’s have much more from your pen! Rachel

Henry - February 15, 2010

Hi Glasseyedave,
I completely agree with you that what we accept as a believer today is completely different from the example showed to us in scripture and I agree that we should aspire to the perfection that Christ calls us to. One of the things that lead me into the blogosphere was that I found to a large extent that churches in the main weren’t preaching those things that Jesus taught especially in the 4 gospels. As a result I have asked the question in the past as to whether it was because the standard that Jesus laid down was to hard to reach. But surely this standard cannot be unreachable since it is Jesus who calls us to obey all that He had commanded. I too also struggled with the question of why the signs didn’t follow me first as a believer and consequently the churches I have attended. Could it be that the format of church today “quenches the Spirit” compared to the format of the early church?

In any event I think that the early church believers also strugled with sin hence the reason there were repeated warnings from the likes of Paul that sin should not be found amongst the church. I guess it is to do with the battle of the Spirit against the flesh which we all have to ultimately overcome through crucifying the flesh daily and be transformed through the renewing of our minds. I think therefore for us we start out as a “babe” and we work towards spiritual maturity (not that salvation is of works mind you).

Henry - February 15, 2010

Hi Rachel,
You are welcome! Thank you for your kind remarks but all to the praise of His glory. I will try and check out those articles you submitted.
The Lord Bless you too.

5. glasseyedave - February 16, 2010

Hi Henry,

You know it is funny I even came across your website. It is the very subject or homosexuality in the church that got me looking deeper in the church doctrine. It really relates to what you and I are looking to find in the gospel. Especially as it relate to your last comment to me.

About 6 years ago I heard a priest; I think it was a Lutheran priest, on National Public Radio, who was going to be the first homosexual priest for his sect. He said, “The Holy Spirit is doing something new upon the earth.” To which I shouted back, “I know why God is not moving in your church.” Right after I opened my big mouth, I heard that still small voice say, “Why am I not moving in your church?”

Well, I was had. I knew back then, as well as now, that what we have presented to us in scripture is not what we get told we can do in church. I put in the follow terms:

After getting all excited about what we read in the Bible and the believer we can be, we look up from the pages and say, “Oh, that’s how we do it.”

So I could see why God would not move in this man’s church. I could see where they had strayed from scripture and he could not see it. So the question was, what in my beliefs had strayed from scripture? I could see the splitter in the one man’s eye but not the plank in my own eye, when it comes to obeying doctrine and seeing the promise of signs and wonders to confirm the word. For in all honesty, I am sure where I attended had no more of the Holy Spirit than his parish.

So I have been on a journey trying to understand what scripture really says about our salvation. It has put in odds with those who follow Calvin and those who take the view of the Armenians. But as I have studied, I have seen a different gospel presented in scripture other than what I had presented to me in church.

So I hope to be able to someday get all excited when I read my Bible and look up and say, “Yep that’s the way we do it.” I suspect God doesn’t move, because we have an imposter gospel. Why would he confirm a doctrine that isn’t His?

I invite you to see my working out these issues if you like.

6. Henry - February 17, 2010

Hi Glasseyedave,

As I read your latest response it reminds me somewhat of my journey which lead me into the world of online forums and blogs. As a relatively new Christian I started reading my Bible and getting excited about reading it even more. Then I turned over to Mark 16:17 and read, “And these signs shall follow them that believe…” I started asking myself why do I not see these signs in my church or in any church that I have been affiliated with? I started asking if the charismatic gifts are no longer present in church. Yet I do believe the charismatics gifts have not ceased but if this is so where is the true church of Jesus Christ? I resolved to start searching on the internet about the true church of Jesus Christ. I now realise that the true church will not necessarily be in a place where we can point to it and say there is the true church. The true church is scattered amongst the churches and I guess the wheat and tares are growing together until the time of the harvest. As Jesus put it “the wind goeth where it listeth” and this is the characteristic of the true church.

It can be somewhat disconcerting however as a believer to think that somehow we have missed the mark – the true calling of Jesus Christ – when we find ourselves in a church that does not seem to reflect the Gospel of Christ. But even in this blog format the true church are meeting and fellowshipping. I would like to share these articles with you:
http://theschoolofchrist.org/articles/jesus-is-building-his-church.html
http://theschoolofchrist.org/articles/a-convenient-cult.html

I have actually looked at your website and read some of your writings prior to your invitation that is. But I will try to read and digest it a bit more.

7. glasseyedave - February 18, 2010

Hi Henry,

I too have marveled at a church that would say amen to-
(Mark 16:16 NIV) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Yet when Jesus describes the believer-
(Mark 16:17-18 NIV) And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”
All we hear is crickets.
Let alone His promise-
(John 14:12-14 NIV) I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
His testimony is the truth, yet we have none of this.
Paul had it. Who can say this about their preaching?-
(1 Cor 2:4-5 NIV) My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on men’s wisdom, but on God’s power.
Paul held the church accountable to the message of his gospel because of this power-
(Gal 3:1-5 NIV) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing–if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
In fact, he would demonstrate the authority of his gospel by this power, showing the other gospels of men to be no gospel at all.
(1 Cor 4:18-20 NIV) Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you. But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power.
Sadly, Jesus speaking of our day says-
(Luke 18:8b NIV) However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
I used to think that was the most ridiculous question I have ever heard. But now I have to wonder, just like Him.
As I said before, I could see the error of the homosexual priest, but couldn’t see my error.
So where do you think the error of our gospel is that we have no power, just like those arrogant people who perverted the gospel that Paul apposed? I would like to hear what you have to say.

8. Henry - February 22, 2010

Hi Glasseyedave,
I used to struggle with Mark 16:17-18 as well but after reading 1 Cor 12 it becomes clear that the signs would follow “them that believe” as a group rather than each individual to display all those signs themselves. The reason for this is that Paul asks some rather rhetorical question such as, are all apostles, are all workers of miracles, do all speak with tongues? The answer to that is clearly no but the Holy Spirit distributes gifts severally to the church that all may be edified thereby.

The problem I had however is that whichever church I have attended I do not see any demonstrations of these charismatic gifts. In fact I have been to a few Pentecostal churches and the only sign they appear to display is the “speaking in tongues” but on a close examination of scriptures 1 Cor 14 it becomes clear that they have a form of glossolalia which isn’t a true manifestation of the gift of Tongues.

I still ask myself where are the charismatic gifts? Perhaps one of the reason is we don’t see these is because the format of the church has changed from one that was in the open, visible to the world so that the Spirit could be a witness of the Gospel, to one that is now locked away behind closed doors. John the Baptist’s ministry started in the open; Jesus’ ministry started in the open likewise; at Pentecost though the Apostles and the others present received the Holy Spirit in the upper room, they then went out to preach so that those Jews who were gathered in Jerusalem could here them uttering words that everyone of them could hear in their own tongue, from the countrys they came.

In the early days of the church we see that the church wwas a single organic entity which grew as God added to the church daily. It wasn’t different individual churches or denominations with their own set of rules and statement of faith, locked away from the world in their own private buildings. The churches today have become somewhat disintegrated in comparison to the early church and in fact some of these denominations we have today were founded on heresy by false teachers so they were cut off from inception from the main body of Christ. I think this is where the error is. The Acts Chapter 2 church is completely dissimilar to what we have today as church yet that was the church that the Lord increased. We have perverted the way of the gospel by introducing human canons such as tithing and as a result we in effect “quench” the Spirit. Imagine in our day we have individuals who call themselves experts in Church growth? So what kind of church do you think that will produce? A church walking in the power of the Holy Spirit by faith or a dead church?

9. glasseyedave - February 23, 2010

What are you, my spiritual double? To what you wrote I say yep, yep, yep, I agree. Just like Israel wanting a king to lead them, we the church have left Christ our head for a man to lead us. I am convinced we have left the promises given to Abraham and foretold by the prophets for a gospel that is not a promise at all. I believe the great falling away that is to take place in the last days has already happened. I believe Satan has perverted us at not just in sin, but at the very core of the Gospel.
For me to stand against this I started my website and I am also trying to get a book I published with the same name. But I have found in my sharing this with my church friends they are hostile to it. They think they are following the gospel and what do I know, I am not a pastor. So now I am a kook on the fringe. The more I believe and defend The Gospel According to the Gospel, the more I alienate them and hurt their feelings. I can not buy into their gospel anymore. One such a person is a pastor I lived with for three years. It has caused pain there.

10. Henry - February 24, 2010

Glasseyedave,
Perhaps I am your spiritual double, who knows but what is certain is that we are of like mind on the state of the church today which in the main seems to have departed from the true gospel of Christ. Evidently the truth will offend those who have been walking a certain way for a long time and thinking that they are “secure” in that path. For them to admit that they are in error and to turn and walk a different path is too much to contemplate. This was the state of the Pharisees, many of whom would rather follow their own traditions than to atune their ears to Christ’s truth. I certainly do believe as well that the great falling away has certainly began and I will address some of that in the second part to my article on The Coming One World Government.

11. faye christian - May 9, 2010

I have truely enjoyed these post.

12. Henry - May 10, 2010

Hello Faye Christian,
Welcome and thanks for your comment.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s