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The Pre-tribulation Rapture Revisited: The Seven Seals March 1, 2010

Posted by Henry in Eschatology & End Times.
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I have decided to do a further, hopefully in-depth, study on the issue of the pre-tribulation rapture primarily because a number of posters have raised certain points which I did not touch on in my previous post here. In order to avoid confusion therefore I have decided to revisit this topic.

 Firstly there seems to be some confusion amongst pre-tribulation believers that God’s wrath begins from about the opening of the first seal in Revelations 6. But this is not the case. The wrath of God is not poured out until the seventh seal is opened and we see this from Rev 8:1 onwards. The wrath of God is further elaborated on in Rev 15 and 16 and so on. It is clear from scripture that the church is not appointed unto wrath (1 Thess 5:9) and therefore will not incur the wrath of God which constitutes the outpouring of the seven vials (note difference with the seven seals) by the seven angels. However, we are appointed unto tribulation which is distinct from God’s wrath. But what is the timing of the tribulation and what do we glean from Rev 6 regarding the timing of God’s wrath? Note that Revelations chapter 6 and 7 both mirror and expand on the events that Jesus spoke of concerning His return in Matthew 24 (or Mark 13).

 In Rev 6:9 therefore we see the opening of the 5th seal. Here John saw the souls of them that were killed for the word of God and the testimony they held, under the altar. These souls were asking God how long it would be before He avenged them. The reply we can see in verse 11:

 “and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”

 These souls were to wait until their fellowservants and brethren be killed as they were before God avenged them (We will come back to this). This was the tribulation or at least part of it because we know that the tribulation precedes Christ’s return and God’s wrath does not come into play yet until after these things were fulfilled. The first 4 seals then cannot be considered God’s wrath. We also know that the two beasts of Rev 13, which is the anti-christ’s world government which made war with and overcame the saints is in establishment at the time of Christ’s return. Therefore the tribulation period is synonymous to the last world kingdom on earth leading up to Christ’s return.

 Following in the timeline of the seals, in verse 12 of Rev 6 we see the opening of the 6th seal which sets off a great earthquake and the sun turned into darkness and the moon into blood, whilst the stars fell from heaven just as Jesus said in Matt 24:29-31. Note however that Jesus said in Matt 24:29 that these things occur immediately after the tribulation of those days. Continuing on from Rev 6 we read then that the heavens rolled away as a scroll and the people of the earth fled and tried to hide their faces from He that sat upon the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb. Why? We see the reason in verse 17: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 When does the wrath of God occur then? After the sun was turned into darkness and the moon into blood etc! When did these events occur?  They occurred after the tribulation of those days and not midway through or before. So then what can we conclude? The day of the wrath of God is NOT synonymous to the tribulation because the day of His wrath occurs after the tribulation. To say then that if the church were to be in the tribulation they would also be at the mercy of God’s wrath is completely wrong. God’s wrath begins with the opening of the 7th seal (See Rev 8:1 onwards) and therefore does not run concurrent with the tribulation which occurs at the 4th and 5th seals. This therefore means that the church can very well go through the tribulation without being at the mercy of God’s wrath at the same time. As outlined previously then, it is at the 6th seal that Christ comes and take the saints out of the way after which time the 7th seal, which is God’s wrath is poured out. The problem for pre-tribulation believers however is that they wrongly coincided Gods wrath with the first 4 seals (instead of to the 7th only) and thereby presumes that the church is raptured before these 7 seven seals are fulfilled. Thus they designated the elect of Matt 24:31 as tribulation saints (or “invited guests” to the marriage supper of the Lamb) instead of considering them as part of the church. We shall soon find out however if these claims are true.

 Now moving on to Revelations 7 we see from verse 1 and 2 that the four angels were given instructions not to hurt the earth until God’s servants were sealed. In other words this sealing had to occur before the pouring out of God’s wrath which occurred later in Rev 8. This process was part of the gathering of the elect from the four winds as outlined in Matt 24:31. First we see the 144,000 who were sealed then we see from verse 9 a great multitude of people from every nation kindred and tongue clothed in white and standing before the throne of God. We know who the 144,000 are from Rev 14 but what of the great multitude clothed in white robes which no man could number? Note here that the elect of God was gathered after the tribulation as per Matt 24:31. Bearing that in mind we read from Rev 7:13:

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes. (Emphasis mine)

So then the elect which are gathered after the tribulation are the same as the great multitude clothed in white and standing in front of God’s throne. Could these be “tribulation saints” only or merely “invited guests” to the marriage supper? It would be expedient to introduce 1 Thess 4 here for further light and we read:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Can I here a halleluiah? Bless God, the mystery is solved!!! The scripture here says those that were dead in Christ and those that are alive (even those through the tribulation) unto the coming of the Lord shall be caught up together with Jesus and the key here is the phrase, “and so shall we ever be with the Lord”. Now going back to Rev 7:13-17 quoted above, who do we see the Lamb (Jesus) sitting and dwelling amongst, paying particular attention to the phrase, “and so shall we ever be with the Lord”? We see that it is the great multitude which came out of great tribulation that serves Jesus night and day in the temple and that Jesus is sitting and dwelling amongst. Further, it is this multitude that Jesus is seen feeding. This is the marriage supper of the Lamb!! To God be the Glory for revealing His Word. If this multitude were merely “tribulation saints” or “invited guests” to the marriage supper, where is the church? There is no mention of any other group from earth anywhere in the text. Maybe the Lord put them somewhere else with the intention to visit them later? But that would violate the phrase “and so shall we ever be with the Lord”. It should be clear then that the church is the same as the elect (or part of the elect) and is the same as the great multitude which Jesus can be seen dwelling amongst and feeding around the throne. If this is true then where is the pre-tribulation rapture? Noting that 1 Thess 4:15-17 is used as part of the supporting evidence. In addition, the conspicuous absence of the term ecclesia from Revelations chapter 3 onwards cannot be used as evidence for a pre-tribulation rapture as this is mere speculation.

 Now let’s return to the “Marriage Supper” which occurs in Rev 19 to see how it fits in with the events of Rev 6 and 7 and indeed if it constitutes a separate event. It should be noted here that the pre-tribulation believers suggest that the “marriage supper” occurs at the rapture which they say occurs before the tribulation. Therefore they attempt here to make the church distinct from the elect who are gathered after the tribulation. So what does Rev 19 tell us? We read:

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints

We know from scripture that the Church has always been described as the bride of Christ, so therefore the marriage of the Lamb constitute the church being united with Jesus Christ. The church therefore we can see be seen here in verse 8 clothed in white linen at the marriage which occurs at the time of the judging of the great whore and at the time when God avenged her for the blood of the saints (see verse 2). Recall that at the opening of the 5th seal the souls under the altar asked God how long till He avenged their blood. The response was that they should wait till their fellowservants and brethren were to be killed by. Now we can see that these fellow servants and brethren were they that were to be killed by the great whore which existed at the time of the anti-christ’s reign. The marriage of the Lamb therefore occurred at the opening of the 6th seal as clearly it is at this point we see the multitude clothed in white before God’s throne.

 In summary it is clear then that if we place scripture upon scripture, line upon line, we can come to the knowledge of the truth. What we must never do is to hold to a belief then to seek evidence to support that belief even to the point of conjecture and innuendo but rather to look at what the scripture tell us. If we follow the timeline of the 7 seals, especially from the 5th seal onwards we can see clearly that there is no room for a pre-tribulation rapture argument. There is no scripture in the Bible which supports that argument and if it did exist it would run contrary to all the scriptures I have presented here. The fact that the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is appealing and comforting to us should not give us reason to stretch scripture and resort to conjecture in order to build a doctrine.

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Comments»

1. Don McAllister - March 1, 2010

Greetings Henry,

“They called to the mountains and rocks, ” ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from he wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath as come and who can stand?”

First, the phrase “For the great day of their wrath has come” does not infer that it is just starting at the announcment that is being made, but that it has come is meaning that it has already started prior to the announcment and is on-going.

second, Who’s opening the seals? Jesus is and by doing that he is directly initiating the seals, trumpets and bowls, which is the wrath of God.

Third, if anyone is question as to whether the seals prior to the 6th seal are also counted as being included in the wrath of God, I would remind you that, a fourth of the earth’s population was just killed by war, famine, disease and by the wild animals of the earth, which was initiated by Jesus.

Four, the discription of the seven bowls proves that they alone are not to be considered as the wrath of God and that there was wrath prior to them as seen below:

“I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven [last] plagues–last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.”

All seven bowls combined constitute the last of God’s wrath, which would infer that there had to be wrath prior to the bowls since it is said that they “complete” the wrath of God.

Also, all three sets of seven judgments, the seals, trumpets and bowls are said to be the wrath of God as listed below:

6th Seal:
“They called to the mountains and rocks, ” ‘Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and fromt he wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come and who can stand?”
(wrath has come, meaning “on-going.”)

7th Trumpet:
“The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.”
(wrath has come meaning “on-going.”

Seven Bowls:
“I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues–last , because with them God’s wrath is complete.”

Notice also that is states “with them” God’s wrath is complete, meaning as unit, that is, all seven combinded contitutes the last plagues of God’s wrath.

Yours in Chirst
I believe, according to my studies that we will never even see the antichrist, that is, we will be removed before he makes his peace covenant with Israel.

2. Henry - March 1, 2010

Greetings Don,

Firstly let me say that the Bible says in 2 Cor 13:1 that:

In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Now I have presented Matthew’s account (chapter 24), Marks (chapter 13) and John’s (Rev 6 & 7). That is three witnesses and their witness follow the same pattern of events. Yet strangely enough there is not a single hint pertaining to a pre-tribulation rapture in these three accounts. Don’t you find that odd? These men who heard from God and recorded His words pertaining to the end times neglected to communicate to the church that the church will be raptured prior to the tribulation. Why? It is clear to me that pre-tribbers can only build a doctrine on the pre-tribulation by ignoring key scriptures.

We must not forget that from the inception of the church it went through tribulation of one form or another in the first century and in the middle ages by the Inquisitions. Paul made it clear that “through much tribulation must we (the church) enter the Kingdom of God” (Acts 14:22). Compare what Paul said with Rev 7:14: “These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Clearly it was those who went through great tribulation who came into the Kingdom and could be seen around God’s throne. Thus confirming what Paul said in Acts 14:22. And if those multitudes which came through great tribulation aren’t the church who are they?

Why is it then that people try to circumvent the tribulation?

God Bless

3. wabd - March 2, 2010

Hello Henry,

Thanks for the invite to read this post. For now I’m just going to enjoy the exchanges between Don and yourself before commenting.

You have clearly done a lot of research prior to presenting the information, it therefore deserves an in depth review.

In His Grace

Wes

4. Henry - March 2, 2010

Hello Wabd,

The only research I have done is to read my Bible again and put forward what I have read. But before you conduct your review you might want to read my next post on The Mystery of the Four Horsemen.

I also want to leave you with a puzzle, if you can solve it I think you will find the anwers you are looking for.

“Through much tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God” (Who is speaking and to whom?)

“These are they which came out of great tribulation” (Who is speaking and of whom?)

I repeat,
“Through much tribulation must we enter the Kingdom of God” (Isn’t Paul speaking prior to the rapture and did he not include himself in the “we”?)
“These are they which came out of great tribulation”

5. glasseyedave - March 12, 2010

Hi Henry,

I found it very insightful and wish to make a deeper study of it myself. I used to believe the pre-rapture stuff, but I think the weight of scripture points to exactly what you are saying. Are you going to discus the mystery of God in chapter 10?

6. Henry - March 13, 2010

Hi Glasseyedave,

I am glad you found my posting of some use. Please however do study it on your own without any presuppositions on my part clouding your view. After you have done your studies I would love to hear what you have concluded especially in the face of the opposing veiws to the post-trib argument.

I wasn’t actually planning on doing any more write-ups on the rapture issuse. To be honest I didn’t intend to do more than one write-up but realised that perhaps my initial write-up did not do justice to the issue especially in the face of opposition.

glasseyedave - March 14, 2010

Don you commented:

“I believe, according to my studies that we will never even see the antichrist, that is, we will be removed before he makes his peace covenant with Israel.”

If your studies are accurate, then what do we do with this scripture?

(2 Th 2:1-3 NIV) Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

7. Paul Bortolazzo - March 15, 2010

Hi Henry,

“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory…For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.” (Mat. 24:30; 16:27)

The sun, moon, and stars, will lose their light immediately after the tribulation of those days. The Lord describes this persecution in Matthew 24:4-26. John also saw these same events in Revelation 6:1-17. After the opening of the 1st seal, teachers coming in Christ’s name will be deceiving many believers (Rev. 6:1-2, Mat. 24:4-5). After the 2nd seal, there will be wars and rumors of wars (Rev. 6:3-4, Mat 24:6-7). After the 3rd seal, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes will spread (Rev. 6:5-6, Mat. 24:7). After the 4th seal, the worldwide persecution of the elect will erupt (Rev. 6:7-8; 13:7, Mat. 24:9-22). After the 5th seal, many saints will be killed (Rev. 6:9-11, Mat. 24:9). After the days of this tribulation (persecution), the Lamb will open the 6th seal.
Mark this down and pray over it. Jesus never places the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the gathering up of believers
from earth, before, in the middle, or at the end of the 70th week. Think of the countless hours of research, preaching, articles, and books by believers vainly trying to prove a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, or post-tribulation rapture. These interpretations are not in scripture. Let’s remember, the 70th week of Daniel is never called the tribulation period (Dan. 9:24). When Jesus says ‘after the tribulation of these days’, He is referring to the first five seals on the outside of the heavenly scroll. Jesus will open the 4th seal in the middle of the 70th week (Rev. 6:7-8, Mat. 24:9-15). The Son of Man will come back after He opens the 6th seal (Mark 13:24-27). This proves the gathering up of the elect at His coming must happen sometime in the second half of the 70th week; no man knows the exact day or hour (Mat. 24:36).

Lets stand for the doctrine of Christ, Paul

8. Henry - March 15, 2010

Hi Paul,

I totally agree with you. You will also find that my interpretation of the 4 horsemen (seals) which I conflated with Matt 24 are somewhat in agreement with your response. See my article here:
https://spiritofdiscernment.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/the-mystery-of-the-four-horsemen/

The only thing I didn’t bother to address however is the book of Daniel.

9. Paul Bortolazzo - March 15, 2010

Hi Henry,

I’m praising the Lord for getting to meet you and your informative blog. Ive learned a lot from your research. My website, paulbortolazzo.com, sites what I believe. In fact I would like to send you a free copy of my new book, Til Eternity. Even if we don’t agree on every point, I do believe the Holy Spirit is using you to spread this critical message on the events that warn us His coming is near. Til, Paul

10. Paul Bortolazzo - March 15, 2010

“For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev 6:17)

‘Has come’ is referring to a future event; not a completed action. The wrath of God is coming. Remember when Judas betrayed Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane (Mark 14:41-43)? As the traitor arrived with soldiers Jesus told His disciples His hour has come. Had Jesus faced Pilate yet? No, His trial was coming; it was in the immediate future. The 6th seal is not a sign the wrath has begun; it’s a sign the day of the Lord is coming (Rev. 8:7). The events from the seven seals are never called God’s wrath. The first five seals represent the rebellion of mankind and Satan’s wrath against the saints (Rev. 12:12; 14:12).

“…’When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times.'” (Mat. 16:2-3)

During this 2009 prophecy conference, The Signs Of The End Times, Dr. David VanKoevering quotes Jesus before rebuking ministers refusing to discern the signs of Christ’s coming. [44. End Times Convocation 3, T. 3:35-4:35] He believes they will give an account to God for such appalling neglect. This pastor has no idea he is judging himself. He teaches a signless at any moment rapture. The only time the physical redemption of believers is near is after Jesus opens the 6th seal (Luke 21:25-28). Only overcomers will be watching for the sign of the day of the Lord (Isa. 13:9-11, Mat. 24:29, Rev. 6:12-13), followed by the sign of the Son of Man (Mat. 24:27, 30

11. Henry - March 15, 2010

Hi Paul,

Thank you for comments. It is my hope that the Lord be glorified by what I write here. I will definitely have a look at your site when I have the chance. I think in the main though from what you have posted here is that we are generally in agreement. Thank you for your offer of a free copy of your book. However, I am based in the UK so I am not sure how the logistics of that will work.

12. Charlene - March 23, 2010

[I just read the following item on the web. Interesting?]

PRETRIB RAPTURE SECRECY

by Dave MacPherson

The word “secrecy” when applied to Christ’s return can refer to two different things: time and visibility. Before 1830 the only coming Christians looked for was the “every eye shall see him” second advent to earth – secret only in point of time.
Enter Margaret Macdonald in 1830. She saw “the one taken and the other left” before “THE WICKED” [Antichrist] will “be revealed” – and added that her pretrib rapture would not be “seen by the natural eye” but only by “those who have the light of God within.” Her rapture was doubly secret: at an unknown day and hour and also invisible to “outsiders.”
Desperate to eliminate Margaret as the pretrib originator and the Irvingites as the first public teachers of pretrib, Darby defender Thomas Ice foolishly claims that they taught a secret POSTTRIB coming even though he knows that when Hal Lindsey teaches “one taken” etc. before the Antichrist “is revealed” Lindsey is expressing the kernel of the pretrib view – what MM and the Irvingites clearly taught before Darby did! Google “X-Raying Margaret” and “Edward Irving is Unnerving” to see why they are properly labeled “pretrib.”)
As early as June 1832, Irving’s journal taught that only “to those who are watching and praying…will Christ be manifested…as the morning star. To the rest of the church, and to the world, this first appearance will be…unintelligible.” (“Present State of Prophetic Knowledge” etc., p. 374)
Always trailing and “borrowing” quietly from the Irvingites who in turn had “borrowed” from Margaret, Darby in 1845 finally sounded like them when he wrote that “the bright and morning Star…is the sweet and blessed sign to them that watch…And such is Christ before He appears [at the final advent to earth]. The Sun will arise on the world….The star is before the [Sun], the joy of those who watch. The unwakeful world, who sleep in the night, see it not.” (“Thoughts on the Apocalypse,” p. 167)
And Lindsey’s “Late Great Planet Earth,” p. 143, says that “the second coming is said to be visible to the whole earth (Revelation 1:7). However, in the Rapture. only the Christians see Him – it’s a mystery, a secret.”
My bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” (available at online stores including Armageddon Books) has 300 pages of such documentation and proves that Margaret was the first to “see” a secret, pretrib rapture, that the Irvingites soon echoed her in their journal (which Darby admitted he avidly read), and that Darby was last on all of the crucial aspects of dispensationalism.
Shockingly, all of the earliest pretrib development rested solely on unclear OT and NT types and symbols and NOT on clear Biblical statements. Margaret’s rapture was inspired by Rev. 11’s “two witnesses.” And her “secret visibility” rested on the “types” of Stephen, Paul, and John – all of whom saw or heard what others couldn’t see or hear.
For 30 years Darby’s pretrib basis was the rapture of Rev. 12’s “man child” – actually his plagiarism of Irving’s usage of this “pretrib” symbol eight years earlier!
As I said at the start, the “second advent to earth” is secret in point of time with its unknown “day and hour,” as Christ stated. Pretribs assert that if Christ returns for the church after the tribulation, we could count down the days and figure out the actual date of His return – which would contradict Christ’s words.
But pretribs deliberately ignore the fact that Christ said that the tribulation days will be shortened – and He didn’t reveal the length of the shortening!
Our opponents also assume that the “watch” verses prove the “any-moment imminence” of Christ’s return. But do they? II Peter 3:12 says we are to be “looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God” which all premills claim is at least 1000 years ahead of us and therefore hardly “imminent”! What’s the difference between “watching for” and “looking for”?
Another gimmick has pretribs saying “Would you want Jesus to return at any moment and find out you’re sinning?” But Jesus ALREADY knows all about us! And the Holy Spirit, who’s also God, is ALREADY here (Rom. 8:27)!
You have just learned a few of the many secrets that the Secret Rapture Gang has hidden for a long time. Evidently they have forgotten Luke 12:2’s warning that “there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed”!
PS – For the ultimate in uncovered secrets, see engines like Google and type in “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.”
PPS – While evangelicals stay largely asleep while waiting for their 180-year-old rapture, the shmutzy-mouth subversives of the world (e.g., movie moguls at awards ceremonies) invent new ways to create and unite even more tailgating, boombox-blasting, four-headlights-blinding members of the FFA (Future Followers of the Antichrist). For some related insights note “backstabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin)” which is found in a web item titled “David Letterman’s Hate, Etc.” (the new, updated version!). Also Google “Obama Supports Public Depravity” and “Obama Avoids Bible Verses.”

13. Henry - March 23, 2010

Charlene,
Thanks for that bit of info.

14. paul bortolazz0 - March 23, 2010

Charlene,

Let’s be discerning, the preterist lie of David McPherson is just as deceiving as the pre-trib
lie of John Hagee or Tim LaHaye. This is an excerpt from a book on the last days called Til Eternity.

“Paul warned believers not to be deceived by anyone saying the Lord had already come (2 Tim. 2:17-19). He uses the false teaching of Hymenaeus and Philetus as an example. They overthrew the faith of some by teaching the resurrection had past. Sadly, history is about to repeat itself. There are teachers today called Preterists. Preterist means past. Preterists (Dave McPherson) believe the events described in The Revelation of Jesus Christ were fulfilled by A.D. 70. They confidently teach the Great Tribulation of the saints by the Beast took place in the first century. This is why many sincere Christians now believe Nero of Rome was the Beast (Antichrist). They point out Nero proclaimed to be God. That he forced many Christians to worship him. Even the number of his name turns out to be 666. When the Word of God appears at the supper of the great God, the Beast will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Unfortunately, Nero committed suicide. This proves this ruler couldn’t have been the Beast. Yet many Christians blindly trust in this heresy. Why is this so dangerous? Anyone believing the Beast is past is being set up to receive his mark! The same can be said for those believing they will be raptured before the Beast takes over the nations. These heresies are paving the way for an avalanche of deception.

glasseyedave - March 25, 2010

The real sad thing is it is setting up to accelerate the great falling away. When believers are not ruptured and no prosperous during the tribulation they will leave the faith like rats. Not only this I suspect they will ridicule and turn against those who remain faithful to Christ.

15. glasseyedave - March 25, 2010

That would be raptured.

16. Gina - March 31, 2010

Where on earth did Paul Bortolazzo find evidence that historian Dave MacPherson is a preterist? It certainly isn’t in MacPherson’s bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” or in any of his web articles like “Pretrib Rapture Diehards” or “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy” or “Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty.” MacPherson clearly expects a future tribulation and Antichrist. Can Paul clear this up for us? Gina

17. Paul Bortolazzo - April 1, 2010

Gina,

Simply Google Dave McPherson. He is on several Pretrerist sites.

18. Mystery of God (Part 8 Rethinking the Revelation timeline) « The Gospel According to the Gospel - May 28, 2010

[…] reasons for believers to rethink the Revelation timeline I would like to give credit to Henry at Spirit of Discernment who has been fighting the good fight in defending our gospel.  Henry has put forth great […]

19. glasseyedave - May 28, 2010

Hi Henry,
I wanted to do a little study of my own on what you have written and add to the debate so I linked to this post. However I noticed that the rapture happens at the sounding of the last trumpet when the mystery of God is accomplished. Yet at the same time I see no contradictions between your sixth seal and my seventh trumpet. I put a chart up to help explain. But we are definitely going to be here during the tribulation.

Let me know what you think.
http://thegospelaccordingtothegospel.com/2010/05/28/mystery-of-god-part-8-rethinking-the-revelation-timeline/

20. Paul Bortolazzo - May 28, 2010

Hi Dave,
This is an excerpt from my book, Til Eternity, concerning the last trumpet.

“There are a growing number of pastors teaching the resurrection of the elect will take place at the sounding of the seventh trumpet. They believe the last trumpet blown at the coming of the Lord is the seventh trumpet (1 Thes. 4:16, 1 Cor. 15:52). They teach the two Witnesses represent the church. When the seventh trumpet sounds they believe the church will be resurrected and ascend into heaven in a cloud. They are convinced the mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 is the rapture described in Revelation 11:15. This interpretation has four critical errors.
First, the mystery of the saints receiving incorruptible bodies will take place exactly when the trumpet of God sounds (1 Cor. 15:50-52, Mat. 24:30-31, 1 Thes. 4:15-17). The mystery of God in Revelation 10:7 is completed before the seventh trumpet sounds. Which means the seventh trumpet can’t be the same trumpet blown at the coming of the Lord (1 Thes. 4:15-16, Mat. 24:30-31).
Second; it will be God who sounds the last trumpet at the resurrection of His elect (1 Cor. 15:52, I Thes 4:16). In The Revelation of Jesus Christ angels sound all seven trumpets.
Third; there is no scripture that says the two Witnesses represent the body of Christ.
Fourth, those washed in the blood of the Lamb are delivered out of the Great Tribulation between the 6th and 7th seals (Rev. 7:9-17). In contrast, the two Witnesses go up to heaven during the day of the Lord between the sixth and seventh trumpets (Rev. 11:12).
These events take place at different times; each having different results. (Chart-The Second Coming of Christ) There is no resurrection before the 70th week begins, in the middle, or at the end. Without a doubt, Satan is using this debate as a smoke screen to prevent many from understanding the eternal consequences of the coming of the Son of Man.”

21. Henry - May 31, 2010

Hi Glasseyedave,

I am happy to see that you have done your own studies and have now reached the conclusion that the saints will indeed go through the tribulation. There is always the potential for us to differ on “smaller” points, of course, but the main point of contention here was to establish that the “rapture” would inddeed take place after the tribulation (of those days), tribulation being distinct from wrath. And I am happy to see that we agree on that score.

22. glasseyedave - May 31, 2010

Curious, did you read my short post on the mystery of God and how we have several pictures of the rapture? Main point being we do not study any history book and assume that every event begets another. We understand they overlap in multiple intricate layers and descriptions, just like we see in our gospels. So God in telling His story of the future has overlapping events. He is not restricted to a linear time line, one event begetting another event.

23. Paul Bortolazzo - June 1, 2010

The Revelation of Jesus Christ was given to the apostle John on the Island of Patmos in A.D. 96. This revealing is about the second coming of Christ. The twenty-one events John saw in his vision are like pieces of a puzzle. Once you understand the events coming from the seven seals of the heavenly scroll (Rev. 6:1-17; 8:1), the events from the seven trumpets (Rev. 8:1-13; 9:21; 11:15), and the events from the seven bowls (Rev. 16:1-21), you will be able to see where each event of Christ’s coming takes place (Rev. 7:9-14; 10:1-7; 19:11-21; 21:9-10). The timing of the Son of Man, the Messiah, the Word of God, and the Lamb of God can also be traced back to The Book of Daniel (Dan. 12:2; 9:24; 12:11; 12:12). (Chart-The Second Coming of Christ) God sent an angel to share a vision predicting the death of the Messiah (Dan. 9:26a) and His physical return a second time (Dan. 9:24, Heb. 9:28). In fact, the best way to understand the timing of all four events of Christ’s second coming is by studying this prediction.

24. Paul Bortolazzo - June 1, 2010

When the fourth trumpet sounds, a third of the sun, moon, and stars, will go dark.

“Then the fourth angel sounded: And a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them were darkened. A third of the day did not shine, and likewise the night.” (Rev. 8:12)

It doesn’t say what will happen to mankind when a third of the heavens go dark. Neither are we told how long this darkness will last. Jack Hayford, former pastor of Church On The Way, teaches the second coming is one visit. He does this by teaching the seals, trumpets, and bowls are the same events. There are several reasons why the loss of light after the fourth trumpet can’t be the same event as the 6th seal.
Number one, Jesus opens the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12). In contrast, the fourth trumpet is blown by an angel (Rev. 8:12).
Number two, after the 6th seal is opened, the sun, moon, and stars will lose their light (Mat. 24:29, Isa. 13:10). Once the fourth trumpet sounds only a third go dark.
Number three, the 6th seal is opened before the fourth trumpet even sounds (Rev. 6:12-17, 8:12-13).
Jesus opens the seven seals of the heavenly scroll before the seven angels are given their trumpets (Rev. 6:1-17; 8:2). All seven trumpets sound before seven different angels are given the golden bowls full of God’s final wrath (Rev. 15:1-7). Which means the seals, trumpets, and bowls cannot be the same events. When you allow the Word of God to define itself, it proves His coming is much more than one visit (Rev. 7:9-14; 10:1-7; 19:11-21; 21:9-10).

25. Paul Bortolazzo - June 1, 2010

Almost two thousand years ago, Jesus declared the mystery of God to His servants and prophets. Is this mystery the Gentiles becoming fellow heirs with Jews in the body of Christ? Is it the elect being changed at the coming of the Lord? Or is it Israel being spiritually saved after the fullness of the Gentiles is over? ]

“But in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.” Revelation 10:7

This mystery of God will be finished in the days before the sounding of the seventh trumpet (Rev. 10:7). The Messiah is coming back in a cloud between the sixth and seventh trumpets to spiritually redeem a remnant from Israel (Rev. 9:13; 10:1; 11:15, Acts 1:6-11). Which means this mystery cannot be the mystery of the Church being revealed (first century) or the mystery of the elect being changed at the coming of the Son of Man (6th seal).

26. Henry - June 4, 2010

Glasseyedave,

Sorry for the late response. I did initially read your post which you linked to this one. To be honest I have read other articles which suggest that the 7 seals, trumpets, and bowls should be viewed in parallel but from reading the scriptures myself I cannot see any reason for this basis. I have also seen some which say that the trumpet and bowl judgements are the same but again this cannot be so if we examine the results of each judgements. The events of the seals, trumpets and bowls do appear to be in sequential order. Another point of consideration is that some argue that the saints do not go to heaven but rather that those who were caught up to meet the Lord in the air simple went up to accompany and escort Him back to earth at his coming. There are indeed many veiws concerning these events.

However I can understand where you are coming from with regards to the reference to “the last trumpet” which Paul refers. I guess it is reasonable to conclude that the last trump refers to the 7th trumpet judgment mentioned in Rev 10. If this is so then we would have to conclude that there is indeed some overlap because the bowl judgements can’t be occuring after everything (the mystery of God) has been completed. If this is the case then I cannot see a need for a “catching up” of the saints unless of course they are merely caught up to then escort Jesus back to earth.

The problem with this however is that Rev 15:1 does imply (if not explicitly states) that the saints which had gotten the victory over the beast and it’s image were seen “in heaven?” when the seven last plagues were about to be poured out. To add to that we see in Rev 21:9-11 where the angel took John to show him the bride (of Christ) descending out of Heaven. Now we know that the church is not only the body but also the bride of Christ. So consequently the bride which the angel showed John must be the church – and it can be seen descending out of Heaven. Consequently the bride must have been caught up to heaven before it can descend again out of heaven? How do you reconcile these points with your view?

glasseyedave - June 7, 2010

Henry,

In my conversations with Paul, I tried to demonstrate that both or our positions are only theories. The Bible does not state if the events in Revelation are chronological or not. So supporters of both positions are looking for non-conclusive evidences to build a concrete case. The irony of what we are doing. But it is fun to banter a little and better to study what we believe.

For some reason I am not connecting the same dots you are. I am not understanding why you have concluded the “mystery of God” necessitates that the church does not go to heaven. I would advocate that the saints would go to heaven, even with my overlapping of events. Maybe it is due to my need of a better explanation. Maybe it is because you have not read my short post on the mystery of God. Nor do I understand why the bowls can’t come after the great mystery of God is completed. I hope my post would give some insight to why I see no problem or contradiction with the bowls of wrath happening after the mystery of God. Of course I see the rapture depicted in several places.

The chart I drew up for my post only covers Rev 6:1 through Rev 11:19. My post was to show that the Seals begot the Trumpets and are not a separate event, but a retelling of the events due to the similarities. We see this same retelling of events during the story of the two witnesses.

To my understanding, as I understand it today, the sixth seal is the telling of the whole of the end time events including setting the stage for the bowls.

As you adequately demonstrate with Matt 24, the coming of the sun of man happens after the tribulation and with the accompanying of the signs in the sun and moon. This we see in the sixth seal. It is end game for the wicked for they have witnesses the galactic events of the heavens as the sky is rolled away. Being laid bare to the Creator they hide in caves from His wrath.

(Rev 6:17 NIV) For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

With the church gone, there is a Jewish conversion that sees the sealing of the 144,000 before the wrath. These 144,000 are on earth why the saints who came out of the great tribulation are in heaven.

The opening of the six seal does chronologically depict the melting away of the cosmos. First the Sun, which impacts the reflective light of the moon changes. The stars disappearance is so complete it like over ripe fruit falling in a windstorm. Then all of the sky is rolled up so as not to be revealed anymore. Then the great earthquake of the Lords coming.

Now for some non-conclusive but not non-consequential evidence for the overlapping of the Seven Trumpets with the Sixth Seal.

1. If the heavenly bodies are gone at the sixth seal, how is it we see them again in the fourth trumpet? We have scripture stating that 1/3 were affected, not those remaining that totaled 1/3 that somehow escaped the melting away of the cosmos. This is a serious issue for the chronological crowd.
2. In Matt 24:22 Jesus said that the days will be cut short or no one would survive. But in Matt 24:29-31 we have Jesus saying after the tribulation of these days He will come. Is the 200,000 million army raised after the tribulation of those days and after the Lord takes the church away and after man has become scares upon the earth? How can this be if man is almost wiped out by the account of the Lord?
3. Does not 1/3 of the earth burned up, 1/3 of the sea dies, 1/3 water bitter, 1/3 of sun, moon and stars not shining, nasty locust, the great war where 1/3 of man dies of the first six trumpets sound like the tribulation of those days? Then naturally to follow the seventh trumpet, after that tribulation, when Christ comes and takes His bride.
4. If the seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological, how is it we have the 144,000 meeting the Lord on mount Zion in chapter 14 between the trumpets and bowls when we know they were at the sixth seal?
5. If the seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological, how is it we have the mark of the beast in chapter 13 between the trumpets and the bowls. Does the beast have his kingdom to deceive without the benefit of the now rolled up sky? Without the benefit of the sun and moon? Without the benefit of a massively populated earth?
6. If the theory of chronological order is correct, who will be the beast subjects when no flesh would survive if Jesus came at the sixth seal?
7. Does the beast’s kingdom start after or before the war of the 200,000 million man army (Kings of the east) at the sixth trumpet, where 1/3 of mankind dies? If chronology is the basis of our understanding, and the beast kingdom is between the seventh trumpet and the first bowl, who are the ones hiding from God at the sixth seal?
8. Does God’s wrath at the sixth seal come before the beast’s kingdom between the seventh trumpet and the first bowl?
9. Why are the saint’s crying out to “How long oh Lord?” in the fifth seal, if the beast kingdom doesn’t start until the end of the trumpets and before the bowls? Who is doing the persecuting of the saint at the fifth seal, if it is not the beast?
10. How can the saints come out of the Great Tribulation in the sixth seal, if the man of sin is between the trumpets and the bowls?
11. To whom did the two witnesses witness to at the seventh trumpet if the beast kingdom was not in power, because the trumpets are not concluded?
12. If Christ takes His power and begins to reign at the seventh trumpet, does He now share power with the beast before the bowls? I thought He was to put all things under His feet when He takes power.

Not to wear one out with such questions, I will stop. But to me the chronological view of the seals, trumpets and bowls doesn’t work. If we allow a more detailed telling of the story (overlapping events) between the trumpets and the bowls, this is evidence more of what I am saying? Not the chronological view.

In lack of scripture saying so, we are forced to conclude. The conclusion of the chronological crowd creates many problems as stated and thankfully not stated above.

To answer your question directly about, how do I reconcile your points? The church will be taken out at the sixth seal, after the great tribulation of which the beast’s kingdom will play a part. We see the church taken out before the wrath again as the mystery of God is completed. We also see the same picture of when the two witnesses are told to come up here. They all overlay.

You are absolutely correct when you say that Jesus comes for us at the sixth seal, after the tribulation and before the wrath. Amen brother. But I would want to win you over to see the beauty of the fullness of our gospel (which God is waiting to fulfill at the coming of His Son) in the mystery of God being fulfilled. I urge you to read my post on the mystery of God. Showing not only the wonderful beauty of what God has done for us, but what He will do for us who believe, but also the picture of the same events told in multiple ways in the book of Revelation.

Come on over, the water is fine over here.

I could say more but it is your blog.

27. Henry - June 9, 2010

Glasseyedave,

First let me say that I did read your post as well as some of the discourse between yourself and Paul. To be honest with you though I had never given a great deal of thought to this chronological vs non-chronological view before except where Wabd (a previous poster and fellow blogger) asked if the 7 trumpets and the 7 bowls were the same events. My main concern with this topic was to prove that there was no pre-tribulation rapture as this is not supported in any of the text of scripture. But since you have raised this issue allow me to indulge you. In my previous write ups I have cautioned that the events of the book of Revelation are not in chronological order in terms of reading it from chapter 1 to the end. So please note therefore that if I said I thought the “events” were chronological I was not referring to the whole of the Book. It is clear for example that the events of Revelation 13 which records the rise of the beast do not occur after the 7th seal is opened in Revelations 7 and 8. Let us be clear on that.

When I said therefore that I believed the “events” to be chronological what I am referring to is the 7 seals. Each seal is opened one after the other and are therefore chronological in time. Would you not agree? As far as I am aware therefore each seal gives a picture of the events that occur at a specific time period. Indeed the 7th seal contains the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls. However if you should position the events of both the trumpets and bowls you will note the results are different in each case so these cannot be the same things. You will also note that the trumpets are blown in succession to each other – and the bowls are also poured out in succession. So again chronological here fore me refers to the successive occurrence of the events which follow after each trumpet is blown and after each bowl is poured out. I would like to point out here though that the 7 bowls (or vials) are referred to as the “7 last plagues” (see Rev 15) so if these are the last plagues then does this not imply succession? Note that at the opening of the 6th seal there were 4 angels standing at each of the four corners of the earth but they were told to hurt not the earth until God’s servants were healed. But the only time we see the earth being “hurt” was when the 7th seal was opened and the trumpets began to be sounded. So the trumpets are the first plagues and the bowls are referred to as the last then the bowls are in chronological order to the trumpets, yes? Let me point out though that the 6th and 7th seals are closely interrelated so there definitely seems to be some overlap in the two especially when we read Rev 11:15-18.

What you should not do however is confuse the wrath which occurs at the 7th seal with the tribulation which occurs before the 6th seal. The tribulation therefore is synonymous with the period which sees the rise of the beast. In any event I hope I have cleared up some of the apparent disparities between your views and mine! I think we are generally along the same path. I do think however that some of the events recorded in Revelations are a mystery and beyond our human comprehension and is not worth disputing over.

28. Paul Bortolazzo - June 9, 2010

Hi Henry,

I agree, the 21 events of the seals, trumpets, and bowls take place in chronological order even though the entire letter doesn’t. I’m curious about your belief the 7th seal contains the trumpets and bowls. Could you give the verse that says this? Thanks so much for your ministry in these last days.

29. Henry - June 9, 2010

Hi Paul,

When the 7th seal was opened (Rev 8:1) we see the seven angels standing before God and they were given the 7 trumpets. Therefore my point was that the trumpets are a consequence of the 7th seal rather than something separate to it. We also know that the wrath of God commences with the opening of the 7th seal since at the 6th seal the 4 angels were told not to hurt the earth. Rev 11 also confirms that the trumpets related to God’s wrath and we learn from Rev 15 that the wrath of God was “filled up” in the 7 vials/bowls. So by reason of deduction we can ascertain that God’s wrath is a consequence of the opening of the 7th seal and that the trumpets together with the bowls completes God’s wrath. Please do correct me here if I am wrong.

30. Paul Bortolazzo - June 9, 2010

Henry,
I agree with your assertion that once the 7th seal is opened there is 30 minutes of silence in heaven because the wrath of God is about to begin with the first trumpet. My point is it never says the trumpets or the bowls are in the 7th seal or in the large scroll for that matter. Clearly the wrath of God, during the day of the Lord, begins with the 1st trumpet and ends after the 7th bowl.
If this is true, which it is, then why would the Word of God split the Mount of Olives when He returns with His armies in Rev. 19:11-21 to protect the remnant of Israel from Gods final wrath? The wrath ends at the 7th bowl which precedes Armageddon, the supper of the great God. The bride only returns once, not Armageddon, but on the first day of the millennium inside the new heaven, the New Jerusalem, with her new groom, the Lamb of God (Rev. 21:9-10, 20:6)

31. Henry - June 21, 2010

Hi Paul,
Let me put it in plainer language. The seventh seal does not accomplish anything else in and of itself other than to reveal God’s wrath. The first thing we see when the 7th seal is opened is the seven angels standing before God to receive the 7 trumpets. Next we see another angel which then takes the censor and cast it in the earth. The seven angels therefore takes precedence over this other angel. I cannot therefore see how or why we should separate the 7 angels which were about to sound from the 7th seal as if they are separate events anymore than we could separate the first horseman from the the first seal.

Each seal is opened to reveal what will happen next and so when the seventh seal is opened it reveals the wrath which was to be poured out. I hope I have cleared up any misunderstandings in my previous posts;

glasseyedave - July 2, 2010

I agree with you that the scripture teaches other than a pre-tribulation rapture. I also agree that within each seal,, trumpet and bowl those things are chronological, but after that they are the retailing of the same events of seals, trumpets and bowls. This is why Paul and you go back and forth.

I hope to some day show a more detailed overlay of Revelation showing how the same future is told with different details and emphasis, like our gospels. For me it clears up Revelation and makes it flow better and fit what you and I are saying. Not that I am trying to fit scripture into my understanding, but understanding it has lead me to believe this.

32. Dolores - August 13, 2010

I just ran across this interesting blog and have a comment or two. Noticed that Mr. Bortolazzo on April 1st assumed that Dave “McPherson” [sic] is “Pretrerist” [sic] simply because Dave is quoted on preterist sites. Which means that Dave must also be a preterist, historicist and futurist, plus an amill, postmill and premill simply because he is quoted on all them and many others. For MacPherson fans such as Bortolazzo, Dave has some newer articles on Google including “Pretrib Expert John Walvoord Melts Ice,” “Pretrib Rapture: A Staged Event,” and “Hal Lindsey’s Pretrib Rapture Proof.” Everyone should stay as well informed as Bro. Bortolazzo. Dolores

33. RICHARD SCHURZ - August 23, 2010

Dear brother in Jesus,

God says, “I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times. what is still to come!…What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned that will I do!”  Isaiah 46:10a, 11b  This Bible study compares all the Scripture on each End-time topic and exposes over 12 absolute contradictions of God’s Word by dangerous and deceptive pre-trib doctrines. The next Bible study shows the 7 Bible clues which positively reveals the identity of 666. And finally there is a Bible study which shows how Obama may qualify to be the very decptive False Prophet of 666.
Would greatly appreciate any comments or Bible studies you may have on the Last Days.  Contact Richard at RSchurz@Tampabay.rr.com or call 863-651-4426.
 
Your eternal friend in Jesus,
 
Richard

WHAT IS THE FIRST END-TIME EVENT CHRISTIANS SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR??
 
I Peter 1:13: “Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED* Now the pre-tribbers claim that this glorious *REVEALING or *UNVEILING* of Jesus will be *CONCEALED* BEFORE the beginning of the Great Tribulation.  However, every other time the Word *REVEALED* {Greek-Apocalipsis} is used related to resurrection events it refers to the glorious REVEALING of Jesus on the *LAST DAY* of the Great Tribulation {See 2 Thess 1:7-10 & Luke 17:26-31}. And *CONCEALED* is the exact opposite of *REVEALED* according to every dictionary!  Titus 2:13: “*WE* wait for the *BLESSED HOPE*—the glorious *APPEARING* of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.  Hebrews 9:28 “Jesus will *APPEAR* a 2nd time to bring salvation to those who are waiting for Him!”  Matthew 24:29,30: Jesus says, “Immediately AFTER the distress of those days {The Great Tribulation} the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky. At that time the sign of the Son of Man will APPEAR {Read I John 2:28!} in the sky and the nations will *SEE* the Son of Man coming on the clouds!!” {See 1 Thess 1:7-10}  Paul said, There is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on THAT DAY—and not only to me, but to *ALL who have longed for His *APPEARING*!!”
God has always allowed His people to suffer tribulation and trials because they purify and perfect their faith and gain countless eternal rewards when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED. There are over 40,000 saints martyred every year and the main culprit is no longer the RC Church. The Main culprits now are the 21 Muslim countries and Korea, China, Sudan and Nigeria. I Peter 1:6-8:  “In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED.”  I Peter 2:20b,21: “But if you suffer for doing good and endure it, this is commendable before God. To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow IN HIS STEPS.” I Peter 4:12,13: “Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when His glory is *REVEALED!” Read other persecution verses: Heb 13:35-40; 2 Tim 3:12; 2 Cor 1:7-10; I Thess 3:3,4; Phil 1:29; Phil 3:10; Rev 12:11; Rev 13:9,10 & Rev 14:13.
       The courageous and faithful Tribulation saints will *NOT* be hurt by God’s *WRATH* mentioned in Rev 14:9-11; 15:1,7; 16:1,19} or in any of the 7 trumpet or 7 bowl plagues as explained in Rev 9:4,20,21 & Rev 16:2,4-6,9,10,21; or in any of the plagues of God’s 2 witnesses as per Rev 11:6,10; or in *ETERNAL HELL*. Rev 14:9-11: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of *HIS WRATH*.  He will be tormented with burning sulfur and the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever.” In Rev 18:1-24 we read about the plagues that will destroy the headquarters of 666 during the Great Triubulation. This evil city on 7 hills {See Rev 17:9} is called “Babylon” which Peter said was the nicknmame for Rome in 2 Peter 5:13. In Rev 18:4 a voice from Heaven will order God’s saints to stay away from Babylon {Rome} so that you will not participate in her sins or be hurt by God’s wrath which will completely destroy Rome with many horrific plagues. There are 260 verses from Revelation chapters 6 thru 20 and 128 {49%} of these verses tell of the wrath of God to unbelievers, 666, his False Prophet and Rome. However, not even one of these verses tells of any wrath of God toward His courageous and faithful Tribulation saints. {Read 2 Peter 3:7,10-13!}
      However, in Matthew 24:3,9-13:  The disciples asked Jesus, “What will be the sign of your Coming and the end of the age?? Jesus answered….. {During the Great Tribulation} “Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me.  At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold,{THE GREAT APOSTASY} but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the End will be saved.” 2 Thess 2:1,3: “Concerning the Coming of our Lord Jesus and *OUR being gathered to Him…That day shall not come, except there come a falling away first!!”
The pre-tribbers claim that the “YOU” in Matthew 24:9 above are Jews only and that the Gospel of Matthew was only written for Jews; which is of course completely ridiculous since Jesus said to His 11 Apostles in Matthew 28:19,20 “Go and make disciples of *ALL NATIONS*…teaching them to obey *EVERYTHING* I commanded you!”  {Read John 12:48 & John 14:23}  I John 2:3,4,6:  “We know that we have come to know Him {Jesus} if we obey His  commands.  The man who says, ”I know Him,” but does not do what He commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him… Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.” Jesus was a martyr as was Paul and Peter who walked IN HIS STEPS.    God will miraculously take care of His Faithful and Courageous Tribulation Saints {Just as he took care of the Israelites for 40 years in the Wilderness} even though they won’t be able to buy or sell anything as per Rev 13:17a. {See Matthew 6:25-34}  This will come as a tremendous shock for those who teach the Prosperity Gospel and who are mainly seeking earthly treasures rather than eternal Heavenly Rewards. They teach: If you accept Jesus as your Savior you have a free pass to Heaven and God forbid that you should suffer any persecution or go through the Great Tribulation which fits in with the pre-trib doctrines which are designed to increase church membership at the expense of the Truth. When is the last time you heard a sermon on the virtues and courage of the many present-day martyrs?? And this is probably why there will be a great FALLING AWAY {THE GREAT APOSTASY} at the beginning of the Great Tribulation.
Rev 6:9-11: When He {Jesus} opened the 5th seal, I saw the souls of those who had been slain {Just like Jesus} because of the testimony they had maintained.  They called out in a loud voice, “How long until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”  The each of them was given a *WHITE ROBE*, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed. Rev 7:9,13,14:  After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from *EVERY* NATION, TRIBE, PEOPLE  AND LANGUAGE, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb {Jesus}.  They were wearing *WHITE ROBES*…Then one of the elders asked me, “These in *WHITE ROBES*—who are they and where did they come from?”… And he said, “These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; {Martyrs just like Jesus} they have washed their robes and made them white in the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* {Jesus}.” {See Rev 12:11 & Rev 13:8-10}   This passage in Rev 7:9 above shows that the Great Tribulation will be mainly for Christians in *ALL* Gentile nations and not just Jacob’s Jewish trouble which absolutely contradicts the main thesis of the pre-trib fairy tale.  Rev 12:11:  “They {TRIBULATION MARTYRS} overcame him {Satan} by the *BLOOD OF THE LAMB* and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”  Unfortunately most of the pre-tribbers actually believe that the tribulation saints will not be saved by the blood of Christ like the present church saints and will not be in the LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE.  However, in Revelation 13:8 we read: “All inhabitants of the earth will worship the Beast {666}….*ALL* whose names have not been written in the *LAMB’S BOOK OF LIFE*!”Some of the immediate heavenly rewards for martyrs {Just like Jesus} are found in Rev 7:14-17; 14:13; 15:2-4 & 20:4-6!  
      2 Thess 1:1; 2:1,3,8”  “To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…  Concerning the *COMING* of our Lord Jesus Christ and *OUR* being gathered to Him…Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way for *THAT DAY* will not come *UNTIL* the man of lawlessness is revealed!!… Then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord Jesus Christ will destroy with the splendor of His *COMING*!” So anyone who claims that the church saints will be gathered *BEFORE* the coming of the lawless one {666} is absolutely contradicting God’s inspired words!!   This, of course, totally destroys the central pre-trib doctrine of the *IMMINENT* coming of Jesus!! {That Jesus could come RIGHT NOW} Since the *COMING of Jesus in I Thess 2:8 is POST-TRIB then the *COMING of Jesus when *WE are gathered to Him in I Thess 2:3 must also be POST-TRIB since it is the same context!
      Mark 13:11: “When you are brought to trail {DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION} do not worry about what to say, for it is not you speaking, but the *HOLY SPIRIT*.” This of course contradicts the ridiculous pre-trib idea that the Holy Spirit will be removed from the saints during the Great Tribulation. {Mark 13 is Tribulation chapter}
       Matthew 24:29-31: Jesus says, “Immediately after the distress of those {1260} days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light and the stars will fall from the sky.” {Luke 21:28 adds “When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”} Then the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a loud {7TH & LAST} *TRUMPET* CALL {See Rev 11:15-18; I Cor 15:52 & I Thess 4:16}, and they will gather *His elect* from the 4 winds {Mark 13:27b adds:} “from the ends of the earth {Saints on earth} to  the ends of the Heavens {Saints in Heaven}!!” JESUS WILL COME AGAIN WHEN THE *7TH* ANGEL SOUNDS THE LOUD *7th* AND *LAST* TRUMPET CALL OF GOD.  Rev 11:15a, 18: “The *7TH* angel sounded his trumpet… and the time has come for judging the dead and for rewarding your servants the prophets and saints.”  Rev 10:7: “But in the days when the *7th* angel is about to sound his trumpet the *MYSTERY* of God will be accomplished!  I Cor 15:51:  “Listen, I tell you a *MYSTERY*!  We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in a twinkling of an eye, at the *LAST* {Or *7TH*} trumpet.”   There are only 7 trumpets in God’s inspired Word during the Great Tribulation and the 7th TRUMP is of course the *LAST TRUMP* when the *MYSTERY* of God will be accomplished, and is also the TRUMPET CALL OF GOD in I Thess 4:16.  Now the pre-tribbers claim that the phrase “His elect” in Matt 24:31 & Mark 13:27 refers only to Jews which is, of course, ridiculous and is refuted in 2 Tim 2:10, Titus 1:1 & 1 Peter 1:1.
    John 6:40” Jesus says, “For my Father’s will is that *EVERYONE* who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the *LAST DAY*!”  Now the pre-tribbers wrongly believe that the *LAST DAY* mentioned 6 times in JOHN 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24 & 12:48 refers to a CONCEALED rapture 1260 days or 7 years *BEFORE THE LAST DAY*.  While John 12:48 shows that the lost will also be condemned on that same *LAST DAY*!  WHEN WILL THE LOST BE JUDGED AND SENT TO HELL*? John 12:48: Jesus says, “There is a Judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the *LAST DAY*!!” {See {Matthew 25:31-46}  2 Thess 1:1,6-10:  ‘To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well.  This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire….  He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.  They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* {See I Thess 5:3 above!!} and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!” {Read 2 Peter 3:7,10-13!}Matt 25:31-33,41:  Jesus says, “*WHEN* the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His throne in heavenly glory.  All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another……He will put His sheep on His right and the goats on the left…. Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire!”   John 5:28,29:  Jesus says, “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming {The Last Day} when *ALL* who are in their graves will hear His voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.”  Daniel 12:1b,2,7b:  “There will be a time of distress {The Great Tribulation} such as not happened from the beginning of nations until then.  But at that time {The Last Day} your people–*EVERYONE* whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.  Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt…It will be for a time. times and half a time {1260 days-Rev 12:6,14, or 42  {30-day} months-Rev 13:5} *ALL* these things will be *COMPLETED.       By comparing Rev 12:6b and Rev 12:14b we find that 1260 Days and Time {360 Days} Times {720 Days} and ½ a Time {180 Days} are the exact same period of time.  Likewise, when we compare Rev 13:5b with Daniel 7:25b we learn that 42 {30-day Bible} MONTHS and Time {12 Months}, Times {24 Months} and ½ a Time {6 Months} are also the exact same period of time. And therefore 42 {30-Day Bible Months} and Time, Times and ½ a Time are the exact same period of time since 42 X 30 days equal exactly 1260 days.  12 Months = 360 Days = {1 Time}   24 Months = 720 Days = {2 Times}   6 Months = 180 Days = {Half a Time}   and therefore: 42 Months = 1260 Days = {3 and a Half Times}  Rev 13:5,7: The beast will be given a mouth to utter blasphemies and to exercise his authority for *42 {30-day} months…He will be given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. [COMPARE TO} Dan 7:25: “He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints.  The saints will be handed over to him for time {12 months}, times {24 months} and ½ a time {6 months}. For example: If the coming of 666 will be on October 23rd, 2010 then the 2nd coming of Jesus would occur exactly 1260 days later on April 5th, 2014.     
      NOTE: According to Leviticus 25:8 a Sabbath ‘week’ is *7 YEARS and 7 times 7 YEARS or ‘weeks’ is a Jubilee or 49 years. Dan 9:24-27:  “70 7’s {490 years} are decreed for your people to Anoint the Most Holy, to Atone for wickedness & to bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS. From the issuing of the Decree {By Cyrus-See Isa 44:28} to rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One comes there will be 7 7’s plus 62 7’s {Or 483 years}….He {Jesus-The Anointed One} will confirm a Covenant with many for one 7 {See Heb 9:15}. In the middle of this last 7 {Or 1260 days after His Anointing} He will put an end to all sacrifices and offerings.{See Heb 10:8-10} {And then after a long pause} the abomination of Desolation {666} will come {for 1260 days} until the decreed end is poured out on him {See Rev 19:20}.{And then the Father and Jesus will bring in EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS as per Rev 21:1-5} ” The first half of the last 7 was completed when the Anointed One put an end to all sacrifices exactly 1260 days after His Anointing. {October 23rd, AD 29 to April 5th, AD 33} Since the last half of the last 7 will be 1260 days then the first half of the last 7 must also be 1260 days, Hebrews 9:15: “Christ is the Mediator of a NEW COVENANT.”    Now there are some who suggest that the 666 will exercise his authority for 7 years {Not 42 Months} and that the Great Tribulation will last 7 years {Not 1260 Days or 3 ½ Times}.  They have only **ONE** Bible verse {Daniel 9:27 above which they grossly misinterpret} to support this idea which absolutely contradicts God’s Divine Time Periods as found in Rev 13:5b, Dan 7:25b & Dan 12:1,2,7b.
   Rev 3:1,3: Jesus says, “To the angel of the *CHURCH* in Sardis write…But *IF you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.”  1 Thess 1:1, 5:4: “To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…But you brothers, are not in darkness so that *THIS DAY*{Mentioned In I Thess 4:16,17} should surprise you like a thief.  You are all sons of the light and sons of the DAY.”  And so once the 1260-day Great Tribulation begins all of God’s saints will know the exact day that the Great Tribulation will end at the Second Coming of their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on the *LAST DAY*.  And so the resurrection day of I Thess 4-16 to I Thess 5:4 will not be a surprise to the saints resurrected in I Thess 4:16,17 just as the resurrection day at the end of the 1260-day Great Tribulation will not be a surprise to *ALL* of God’s saints which proves that the resurrection day mentioned in I Thess 4:16,17 will also come  on the LAST DAY of the Great Tribulation!!!
      Also in the context of I Thess 4:16 to I Thess 5:4 is this interesting statement in I Thess 5:2,3:  “You know very well that the day of the Lord {Just mentioned in I Thess 4:16} will come like a thief in the night. {to unbelievers}  While people are saying ‘peace and safety,’ DESTRUCTION WILL COME ON THEM SUDDENLY… AND THEY WILL NOT ESCAPE!!” {See I Thess 1:6-10 and Matthew 25 :31-33,41-46}  After 6 of the last 7 bowl plagues of the Great Tribulation Jesus will make this statement in Rev 16:15: “Behold, I come like a thief!”{See 2 Pet 3:7,10 & Rev 3:3!!} And so at this time during the last part of the Great Tribulation Jesus had still not yet come as a thief!! This destruction of the lost in hell will occur on the LAST DAY of the Great Tribulation as shown above in Matt 25:31-33:41-46: John 5:28,29; Dan 12:1,2,7b & 2 Thess 1:6-10, which firmly places the resurrection mentioned in I Thess 4:16 to I Thess 5:4 on the Last day of the Great Tribulation and not a *CONCEALED* pre-trib rapture 1260 days BEFORE the LAST DAY of the Great Tribulation!!  A Seven-year Great Tribulation and a seven-year rule of 666 is not found anywhere in God’s Word.
Moses & Elijah will begin their 1260 day testimony {Rev 11:3} 3 ½ days before the coming of 666 and the 1260-day Great Tribulation and 1263 ½ days before the Last Day. {*THE FIRST END-TIME EVENT*} Moses and Elijah will warn us of the coming of 666 & his False Prophet. God will allow 666 to martyr Moses and Elijah right where their Lord was crucified when their 1260-day testimony is completed.{Rev 11:7} 3 ½ days later they will rise to heaven minutes before the 7th angel sounds the 7th Trump at the 2nd coming of Jesus.{Rev 11:11-18}
       Revelation 1:7:  “Look, He is coming with the *CLOUDS*, and *EVERY EYE* will see Him, even those who pierced Him!” This 2nd Coming of Jesus with the *CLOUDS* is also mentioned in Matt 24:30 and I Thess 4:17 and in Matthew 26:64: Jesus replied, “But I say to all of you:  In the future you {Unsaved Jews at His trial} will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty one and coming on the *CLOUDS* of heaven!”
     John 6:40” Jesus says, “For my Father’s will is that *EVERYONE* who looks to the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the *LAST DAY*!”  Now the pre-tribbers wrongly believe that the *LAST DAY* mentioned 6 times in JOHN 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24 & 12:48 refers to the first day of the Great Tribulation 1260 days or 7 years *BEFORE THE LAST DAY*.  While John 12:48 shows that the lost will also be condemned on that same *LAST DAY*!  John 12:48: Jesus says, “There is a Judge for the one who rejects Me and does not accept My words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the *LAST DAY*!!” {See {Matthew 25:31-46}  2 Thess 1:1,6-10:  ‘To the *CHURCH* of the Thessalonians…God is just; He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well.  This will happen *WHEN* the Lord Jesus is *REVEALED* {See I Peter 1:13} from heaven in blazing fire….  He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.  They will be punished with everlasting *DESTRUCTION* {See I Thess 5:3 above!!} and shut out from the presence of the Lord *ON THE DAY HE COMES* to be glorified in His holy people!!” {Read 2 Peter 3:7,10-13!}
There will be 2 Comings of Jesus on the same Last Day.  The First Coming will be *FOR* His saints and His second Coming will be *WITH* His saints on Heavenly White Horses right after they celebrate the Marriage Feast of the Lamb. {Read Rev 19:7-21 & Rev 17:14} They will conqer 666 and his 10 armies {See Rev 17:12-14}. This then explains the resurrection of God’s saints in Luke 17:30,35: Jesus says, “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is *REVEALED….two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” All of the lost who are left behind when Jesus is *REVEALED; will later be judged and then sent to hell on that same Last Day. {See 2 Thess 1:1,6-10 above & John 5:28,29; 12:48; Daniel 12:1,2,7b & Matt 25:31-33;41-46}
       Jesus {See Rev 1:10,18} said to John in Rev 1:19: “Write what you have seen, what is now {Rev chapters 2 & 3} and *WHAT WILL TAKE PLACE LATER*.” {Rev chapters 6-22}  Events that will occur on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation are recorded in Rev 6:12-17; Rev 11:15-19; Rev 14:14-20; Rev 16:17-21 and Revelation 19:1-21.  Question: How many words in Revelation, chapters 6-22 are devoted to a rapture before the beginning of the Great Tribulation??  Answer: *ZERO*!! In Rev 4:1 Jesus invited John to come up to Heaven in AD 96 so that he could write what he saw.  Rev 4:1b: Jesus said to John, “Come up here, and I will show you *WHAT MUST TAKE PLACE.”  Unfortunately, there are some pre-tribbers who teach that Rev 4:1 actually proves a rapture of the church saints before the beginning of the Great Tribulation; which shows a new low in honest Bible exegesis. The Olivet discourse by Jesus about the End-Times are recorded in Matthew 24 & 25, Mark 13 and Luke 21.  Events which will occur on the Last Day of the Great Tribulation including His 2nd Coming are recorded in Matthew 24:29-31; Matthew 25:31-46; Mark 13:24-27 & Luke 21:25-28.  How many words of Jesus in His Olivet discourse are devoted to a rapture before the beginning of the Tribulation?  Answer: *ZERO*!!
       Revelation 22:18-19:  Jesus says, “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give *YOU* {The Greek for YOU is plural} this testimony {ALL OF REVELATION} *FOR* the CHURCHES.” {This contradicts the ridiculous pre-trib idea that Revelation, chapters 4-19, was not written *FOR* the CHURCHES!}… I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book.  If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.  And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city which are described in this book.”
It is time for all pre-trib *ADDERS* to repent; and all CLOSET Post-Tribbers to come out of their closets and teach ALL of God’s Word as per 2 Tim 4:1-8 since the End-Times are very near. Paul was inspired to write in 2 Timothy 4:8: “There is in store for me the Crown of Righteousness which the Lord will award to me on *THAT DAY*—and not only to me, but to *ALL who have longed for *HIS APPEARING*.”
 WHAT ARE THE 7 BIBLE CLUES WHICH REVEAL THE IDENTITY OF 666???
      Revelation 13:17b,18: “The mark of the beast {Or antichrist} is the *NAME* of the Beast or the number of *HIS NAME*. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, *LET HIM* calculate the number of the Beast {Even in AD 96 when Revelation was written}, for it is a man’s number {Or “Number of a MAN”}. *HIS* number is *666*.” God has promised in the above inspired passage that any saint {Even in AD 96–which implies that the name was known in AD 96} with spiritual wisdom and insight may calculate the name of the beast which is a *MAN’S NAME* and adds up to 666.
       In Thess 2:3 the Beast of the End-Times is called a “*MAN* of sin or lawlessness” or very SINFUL MAN and therefore the name of the Beast which adds up to 666 is a *MAN’S* name which is also confirmed in Rev 13:17b,18 above. Therefore, the NAME of the Beast which adds up to 666 is a sinful *MAN’S NAME* and could not be the name of a woman or a city, country, computer or Satan, etc..  666 is also identified with a MASCULINE pronoun 28 times in God’s Word which we will show later.
       Rev 13:16,17: “He {The False Prophet} forced everyone… to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead. No one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name {666}. The antichrist is called a “BEAST” 36 {6×6} times in Revelation. The BEAST is a much better name than antichrist since antichrist is mentioned 4 times in God’s Word {I John 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7} and each time the word encompasses all who are against Christ.  I John 2:18: “Even now many antichrists have come.”  Surely all who receive the mark of the Beast are antichrists.
      666 is referred to in the MASCULINE gender 28 times and the Beast is never referred to in the feminine or neuter gender.  It is interesting to note that if the Beast of the end-times will be a religious organization, country or city it would be referred to in the female or neuter gender!!!  The masculine pronouns used for the Beast are “HIS” 11 times: Rev 13:1, 5,16b,18b; 14:9,11; 17:7b; 19:2; 20:4(2X) & Daniel 7:26.  “HE” 10 times: Rev 13:1;6a,7a,7; 17:8b; 17:11; 2 Thess 2:6; Daniel 7:24,25 & Daniel 9:27.   “HIM” 5 times: Rev 13:4b; 19:20; 2 Thess 2:6; Daniel 7:25 & Daniel 9:27.  “HIMSELF” 2 times in 2 Thess 2:4.
      Actually there are **7 BIBLE CLUES** that show who the BEAST of the future 1260-day Tribulation will be. By an amazing coincidence all 7 Bible clues can be applied to Nero Caesar!!
 {{1}}  The BEAST will be a “MAN OF SIN” or very sinful MAN as per 2 Thess 2:3 above.
{{2}}  The number of this sinful man’s name is 666 as per Rev 13:16-18.  The Bible was written by 40 divinely inspired Hebrews in Hebrew and Greek so then it is highly probable that this man’s name adds up to 666 in Hebrew or Greek.  Nero Caesar’s name adds up to 666 in Hebrew which we will show later in this Bible study.
{{3}}  This sinful man whose name adds up to 666 DIED BEFORE AD 96 when Revelation was written.{See Rev 17:8 below} We will show later why Revelation was written between Sept AD 95 and Sept AD 96. Nero Caesar lived from December 15th, AD 37 to June 9th AD 68.
{{4}} This sinful man who was alive and then died before AD 96 was FATALLY WOUNDED by a sword wound to his head. Nero Caesar committed suicide with a sword wound to his head on June 9th, AD 68. {See Rev 13:3 and Rev 13:14 below}
{{5}}  This very sinful man who died before AD 96 was a KING in the Roman Empire as per Daniel 7:24. There were 11 Roman Kings or Caesars who died before AD 96 including the 6th Caesar who killed Paul and Peter in AD 66; and whose name adds up to 666 in Hebrew. Domitian Caesar was the 12th Caesar who was alive when Revelation was written in AD 96.
{{6}}  The beast is also called an 8th KING who ruled before AD 96 as one of 7 KINGS crowned by the city on 7 hills. {See Rev 17:9-11}
{{7}}  This very sinful ROMAN KING whose name adds up to 666 and who was fatally wounded by a sword before AD 96, will “COME UP FROM THE *ABYSS* or *HELL* as per Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8. We know that the ABYSS is HELL by comparing 2 Peter 2:4 with Luke 8:30b,31. We can be sure that Nero Caesar is now in the Abyss or Hell since he killed Paul and Peter and thousands of Christians and sent Vespasian {the father of Titus and Domitian Caesar} to kill the Jews and destroy their Temple. The MAN OF SIN or Nero also killed his own mother and killed his pregnant wife by kicking her in the stomach.   Inscriptions have been found in Ephesus in which Nero is called “Almighty God” and “Savior”.   In Revelation 13:8a we learn that all the unsaved inhabitants of the world will worship the Beast.  Nero and Caligula “abandoned all reserve” in promoting emperor worship – they were the only two Roman Caesars who demanded divine honors while still alive. Nero claimed to be the sun-god Apollo.  In 2 Thess 2:4 we read that the “Man of Sin” will proclaim that he is God!
      Revelation 17:8: The beast, which you saw, once was {alive}, Now {in AD 96} is not {alive} and will come up out of the ABYSS and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book life. … will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was {Alive before AD 96}, now {In AD 96} is not {Alive} and yet will come. Rev 13:14: He {The False Prophet} will order the inhabitants of the earth to set up an image in honor of the beast who was {FATALLY-Rev 13:3} wounded by the sword and yet lived.”  Rev 13:3: One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been HEALED!! The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.
During the last year of his rule Domitian Caesar decreed that everyone in the Roman Empire must worship idols of former Roman Caesar’s or else they would be killed or put in prison. Historical documents show us that the Apostle John {Who then lived in Ephesus} lived to about AD 100 and therefore would have been alive during Domitian’s evil decree of September AD 95 to September of AD 96.  Since we can be sure that the Apostle John would never worship an idol of a Roman Caesar it is then highly probable that John was put in prison on Patmos Isle sometime during Domitian’s evil decree from September AD 95 to September AD 96.
      When I was a missionary in Israel I studied the Hebrew language.  One of the first things that you learn when you study the OT Ancient Hebrew language {Which is also the language of Israel today!} is that the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet ALSO represent 22 numbers! When you read Psalm 119 you will note that the 176 sentences are divided into 22 sections; each section with 8 sentences or verses praising the Word of God. These 22 sections are each headed by one of the letters in the Hebrew alphabet in the exact same order as shown below. The ancient Hebrew language {Which is exactly the same as the modern Hebrew language} frequently used the letters of their alphabet to designate NUMBERS IN THE OT as follows:  ALEPH=1. BETH=2. GIMEL=3. DALET=4. HE=5. VAV=6. ZAYIN=7. CHETH=8. TETH=9. YODH=10. KAPH=20. LAMED=30. MEM=40. NUN=50. SAMEKH=60. AYIN=70. PE=80. TSADHE=90. KOPH=100. RESH=200. SHIN=300. TAV=400.
      NOTE: Most vowel sounds except “O” {VAV} are not used as letters in Hebrew. These vowel sounds are designated by dots and dashes under their *PRECEDING* consonants. In Hebrew “N” is added on the end of all foreign names ending in “O”. Therefore, the foreign name of Nero would be “NERON” in Hebrew. The name Nero Caesar would be pronounced Neron Kaysar in Hebrew. The “E” in Neron and the 2 “A” sounds in Kaysar {There is no “C” in Hebrew} are designated by dots and dashes under their preceding consonants and therefore are not letters in the 22 letter Hebrew alphabet, and so have no numerical value.
      Neron in Hebrew would use 4 letters with numerical value: N-R-O-N and Kaysar in Hebrew would use 3 letters with numerical value: K-S-R. There would be a dot under the first N to show the “E” sound in NEron There would also be 2 dots under the “K” to show the “AY” sound in KAYsar and a dash under the “S” to show the “AH” sound in KaySAHr.  The 4 letters with numerical value in NERON would be {SEE TABLE ABOVE} N = NUN = 50; R = RESH = 200; O = VAV = 6; and N = NUN = 50 and 50+20+6+50 equals 306. The 3 letters with numerical value in “KAYSAR would be K = KOPH = 100; S = SAMEKH = 60; and R = RESH =200 and 100+60+200 equals 360. And so the numerical value of Nero in Hebrew is 306 and the numerical value of Caesar in Hebrew is 360, and therefore the numerical value of Nero Caesar is 306+360 or exactly *666*!
      There is a very interesting footnote in the revised Standard Version concerning the number 666 which states that some ancient manuscripts have the number **616** which *DOUBLY* confirms that Nero Caesar may be the future Anti-Christ!! You will note that the Hebrew language adds an “N” to all foreign names ending in “O”. Now “N” or “NUN” in Hebrew has a numerical value of **50**!! and so if you decided not to add the last “N” in NERON then Nero Caesar would add up to exactly **616** in Hebrew. I think you will admit that this is an absolutely amazing coincidence!!
      Any honest Hebrew language scholar will confirm that the letters of Nero Caesar’s name add up to 666 in the Hebrew language whose 22 letters are also 22 numbers as shown above, and the Bible was written by 40 Jews. Since all of the prophecies concerning the antichrist are written in OT Hebrew {Like Daniel 7:8-25} or NT Koine Greek it would then seem logical that God would use one of these 2 Bible languages to identify the Name of the Beast whose letters add up to 666. One of the problems of doing this in NT Koine Greek is that the letters of their alphabet are not also numbers. And therefore you can only assign a numerical value of 22 to the 22nd letter, etc.. Using this formula you could not get any name to add up to over 250, let alone 666. You have the same problem with English & all other languages other than the Hebrew language! The 3 different Greek words used in Rev 13:18b to arrive at the number 666 are the 3 different Greek words for 600 and 60 and 6 and not 6 + 6 + 6.
     And so the 6th Caesar {Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius & the *6th* was NERO who ordered the execution of Paul & Peter in AD *66* {And who has fulfilled *ALL 7 BIBLE CLUES as to the identity of *666} will be the Beast who comes up from the Abyss {Or Hell-See Rev 11:7 & Rev 17:8} in the coming Great Tribulation!!
INTERESTING SPECULATION AS TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT OBAMA MAY BE THE FUTURE FALSE PROPHET OF 666. THE FALSE PROPHET IS MENTIONED IN REVELATION 13:11-17; 16:13; 19:20 & 20:10
       Revelation 6:7,8: When the Lamb opened the 4th seal, I heard the voice of the 4th living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death {666 who will cause the death of millions} and Hades {The False Prophet who will cause millions to go to Hades by receiving the mark of 666} was following close behind him. THEY {Nero Caesar and the False Prophet} were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. Rev 13:3,4: “The whole world…worshipped the beast {666} and asked, “Who is like the beast?  Who can make war against him.”
The Greek word “PYRROS” which means “FIERY RED” is only mentioned 2 times in God’s Word in Rev 12:2 & Rev 6:3. In Rev 12:2 Satan is the enormous {FIERY} red dragon and would also be the {FIERY} red horse Rider and 2nd horseman of Rev 6:3. The fiery red dragon will be kicked out of Heaven {Rev 12:9} and then will chase some of God’s saints to a place in the wilderness {Rev 12:13-16} and then will wait for the coming of the 4th horseman or 666 {Rev 13:1} which will begin the 1260-day Tribulation. So who will be the White Horse Rider of Rev 6:1,2?? In Revelation only the good guys wear WHITE! The martyrs will wear WHITE robes as per Rev 6:11 & Rev 7:10,13. On the Last Day Jesus will mount a great WHITE horse {Rev 19:11} and His saints dressed in WHITE will follow Him on WHITE horses {Rev 19:14}In Malachi 4:5 God has promised that He would send Elijah {Who went to Heaven on horses-2 Kings 2:11,12} before the Last Day of the Lord. In Rev 11:3,6 God has promised that He would send His 2 witnesses and they would strike the earth with every kind of plague for 1260 days which as we have shown will begin 1263 ½ days before the Last Day. In Rev 6:1,2 it states that the White Horse Rider {Elijah?} will be given a bow and ride out as a conqueror. Elijah & Moses will certainly conquer many since fire from their mouths will destroy & conquer all who try to harm them. {Read Rev 11:5 & Rom 8:37}
The False Prophet is referred to as “HE” {Masculine Gender} 9 times in Rev 13:11-16 & Rev 19:20.  And “HE” will be a very “DECEPTIVE” False Prophet as shown in Rev 13:11-16 & Rev 19:20.    And so Nero Caesar with the help of the armies of the False Prophet {Obama??} and other nations aligned with him will conquer 1/4 of the world {See Rev 6:8; 13:4b} After appointing 10 kings who have never before ruled {See Rev 17:12,13} 666 will then have “authority over every tribe, people, language and nation” as per Rev 13:7b, from his headquarters in Rome. 666 and his false prophet will then quickly gain complete control over the radio, television, internet, newspaper, book and magazine medias.  It is interesting to note that Obama is presently trying to control all of these medias in the USA which may be the world’s most free country!! The Obama Internet kill switch plan was approved by Senate committee on June 27th, 2010!!  This would allow Obama to completely shut down the Internet when he feels there is a national emergency?? Obama {Who already controls about 80% of the USA medias} is presently trying to get authority to shut down certain talk radio stations and TV stations in case of what he considers to be a national emergency. Because of the probability that Obama could lose control of the House and Senate Obama will most likely create a national emegency in the weeks before the November 2nd election.
Revelation 6:5,6: “A quart of wheat for a day’s wages!” This phrase can also be translated “A loaf of bread for a day’s wages.” This event will occur at the coming of the black horse rider {The False Prophet? Who rides close behind 666 as per Rev 6:8} which will take place just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation.  Russia has said they are ceasing all WHEAT exports!! Becuase of tremendous droughts, plagues, fires and heat waves there has been tremendous drops in Wheat production in Russia, Ukraine, Australia and even Canada which has caused a rapid acceleration in the price of Wheat and food prices in the 3rd world. Because of the world’s present economic crisis the majority of people in the 40 poorest counties now have to pay a full day’s wages for a loaf of bread as per Rev 6:6.. And if the world experiences a world-wide depression this event could occur in over 100 countries. Many countries are far worse off than people in the USA during the Great Depression when there was 20% unemployment. The world economic crisis is rapidly accelerating. There are now 40 countries with unemployment rates of over 20 % and this should rapidly increase.  And then the world will certainly be looking for an Economic Savior such as 666 and his very deceptive False Prophet. They will be looking for someone who promises CHANGE!! If the Great Tribulation would begin in the near future is there a well-known, powerful world leader that may qualify to be the deceptive False Prophet of 666 who will promise CHANGE you can believe in!! Will this powerful world leader try to bankrupt the USA which will in turn cause a worldwide depression and cause the price of a loaf of bread to cost a full day’s wages through out most of the world!! 
      Do Obama’s religious beliefs qualify him as the False Prophet??  Some insight into Obama’s “Christianity” comes from an interview he gave in 2004 to Chicago Sun-Times religion editor Cathleen Falsani for her book, “The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People.”  “I’m rooted in the Christian tradition,” said Obama. He then adds something most Christians will see as universalism: “I believe there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.” Jesus says of Himself, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” That sounds exclusive, but Obama says it depends on how this verse is heard. According to Falsani, Obama thinks that “all people of faith — Christians, Jews, Muslims, animists, everyone — know the same God. “Obama doesn’t believe he, or anyone else, will go to HELL. But he’s not sure he’ll be going to heaven, either.”  The False Prophet will certainly teach that you can have your cake and eat it too, and that you will not go to HELL if you receive the Mark of the Beast which will allow you to buy or sell everything.  However, Revelation 14:9:11; 19:20 & 20:10 confirm that he and all who receive the mark of the Beast will be tormented day and night forever and ever in HELL!! Obama told a crowd at Hocking College that he believes the Sermon on the Mount is a and JUSTIFIES his support for legal recognition of same-sex unions??  Obama approves of same sex romantic and sexual relationships as do his former church, his pastor, and his former (So-called} Christian denomination?? Obama said that the Sermon on the Mount is a big joke since you can’t have an army that offers up the other cheek!! The False Prophet should be hugely popular world-wide.  Interesting fact: Obama has greater worldwide popularity than any leader in modern history according to a recent poll in Reader’s Digest and was also awarded the Nobel Peace Prize even though he did nothing to deserve it.  Jesus is our Messiah and the Prince of Peace and is called the LAMB 30 times in the book of Revelation.  The False Prophet is someone who is like a LAMB according to Rev 13:11b.  People from all over the world including Louis Farrakhan {A Muslim leader} have already given Obama this interesting nickname:  “THE MESSIAH”!!   In a recent poll taken by BBC in Sept, 2009 about 66% of those polled around the world thought Obama would make a great World President!! 
       NOTE: There are many statues of the exact likeness of Nero Caesar including a 151 foot statue in the “Golden House” in Rome. The statue of Liberty {Without pedestal} is also exactly 151 feet high… hmmm. At the beginning of Great Tribulation the False Prophet of 666, Rev 13:14: “Will order the people of the earth to set up a statue in honor of the beast who was wounded {Fatally-Rev 13:3} by the SWORD and yet lived!” {Again} This statue of the Beast will be the “exact likeness” of Nero Caesar and could possibly be seen on World Wide TV so that people of all nations will be able to worship this statue as per Rev 13:15b. Obama’s Air Force 1 plane had a photo op with the Statue of Liberty….Hmmm…. The face of the Statue of Liberty could easily be changed to look like Nero Caesar within a few days with a giant mask!
      666 is called a BEAST 36 {6X6 times in Revelation and the False Prophet is also called a “BEAST” in Rev 13:11.  Obama has nicknamed his presidential limousine “THE BEAST”!!  In Revelation 13:11 the False Prophet is called the BEAST of the {PRESENT} EARTH.  Whereas all true Christians are looking forward to a new heaven and NEW EARTH as per 2 Peter 3:13:  “We are looking forward to a new heaven and a NEW EARTH the home of righteousness.” {See Rev 21:1}  Obama is the all-time world’s greatest champion of EARTH day and saving the PRESENT EARTH from Global Warming, Greenhouse gasses, coal burning and carbon emissions and he may bankrupt the world in trying to achieve these goals.
      If you dial O-B-A-M-A on your touch phone the “O” + “M” are both 6’s or 6+6 and the other 3 letters B + A + A are all 2’s or 2+2+2 which equals 6 for a grand total of 6+6+6 or 666.  If you dial O-B-A-M-A you will dial 666!
      In Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15 666 is called an “ABOMINATION”.  In a recent Middle East tour Obama declared that the USA was “NOT a Christian nation!”  I would tend to agree with Obama since with dominating majorities in the House, Senate and Supreme Court Obama are rapidly and surely turning this nation into an “OBAMANATION”!!  In the Health Care bill passed on March 21st, 2010 Obama demonstrated that through skillful Satanic lies, deceit and bribery he can completely control the richest, most powerful “Christian??” nation of the world.  In what political analysts termed a snub, Obama did not dine with Netanyahu as promised during their White House meeting in March and by keeping the talks closed to the media, denied him the courtesy of a photograph with the president.  In addition Obama’s Vice President and Secretary of State took turns embarrassing and condemning the Israeli Prime minister.  During the Great Tribulation 666 and his FALSE PROPHET will be responsible for the death of 2/3 {Which is exactly 66.6 %} of the Jews in the world {Read Zechariah 13:8,9} and 144,000 Jewish evangelists who will be in Heaven with Jesus {Apparently martyred} BEFORE the end of the Great Tribulation. {See Rev 7:4-8; 14:1-8}  And so it is entirely possible that everything the future False Prophet does will be both abominable and OBAMAnable!!  OBAMAnable now is Commander in Chief and has complete control of the most powerful armed forces in the world.  And so Obama meets all of the requirements to be the future False Prophet of 666 which makes it a very interesting speculation.
God says, “I make known the end from the beginning God, from ancient times. what is still to come!…What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned that will I do!”  Isaiah 46:10a, 11b    In Matthew 24: 9-13 Jesus says that during the Great Tribulation: “Then *YOU* will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me.  At that time many will turn away from the Faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of *MOST* will grow cold, but he {The Called, Chosen & Faithful-Rev 17:14b} who stands firm to the End will be saved.” I Peter 1:13: “Therefore, prepare your minds for ACTION, and set your hope *FULLY* on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is *REVEALED*!” 
If you would like to comment call Richard at 863-651-4426 or e-mail RSchurz@Tampabay.rr.com. All Bible studies try to compare all of the Scripture on each specific topic. You can make copies of this Bible study.    
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

34. Henry - September 29, 2010

Hello Richard,
Sorry for taking so long to respond. Thank you for stopping by and for that lenghty contribution. Pertaining to studies on the end times, I have done a few others which may be found under the Eschatology and End Times category.

Indeed the pre-trib rapture doctirne is a very deceptive and dangerous doctrine. But in our own interpretations we need to apply caution as well.

God Bless.

35. Resources for Mark 14:41 - 43 - February 22, 2012

[…] 1The Pre-tribulation Rapture Revisited: The Seven Seals « Spirit of Discernment SUBMIT […]

36. Vela. Evelia - May 22, 2012

Has the 7 seals started yet or are going to soon?

37. Henry - May 23, 2012

I cannot say whether or not the 7 seals have started. Perhaps it is not for us to know the time and the seasons that God has put in His own power. There are too many people trying to work out the timing of these events including the coming of the Son of Man and as a result are misleading many people. I do not wish to add to such speculation.


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