jump to navigation

God’s will for your life September 14, 2011

Posted by Henry in Teaching Things They Ought Not.
Tags: , , , , ,
trackback

I have always struggled when I read about or hear teachers saying that one needs to find out what God’s will for their life is and then seek to pursue it. Underpinning this message is the notion that “God’s will for your life” encompasses all aspects including, career options, who to marry etc and that “God’s will for your life” is something unique to each individual. In other words advocates of this “notion” believes that God has already selected a career path, a wife or husband or a range of blessings that will allow one to live a relatively comfortable and successful life. It is therefore believed that unless we know what God’s will for our life is we can actually miss it. Have you missed God’s will for your life? We shall come to that question later. The more pertinent question here though is whether this view is Biblically sound.

Since God is sovereign then the common denominator that everyone’s life is predicated upon is “God’s Will.” This applies to the believer and the unbeliever alike. The scriptures truly say that “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein” (Ps 24:1). Jesus also made it clear that the Father sendeth rain upon both the just and the unjust (Matt 5:45). One question that could be asked here then is whether it is in God’s will for man to commit evil? The answer clearly is no but it is God’s will to allow man his free will. Back at the beginning of time God forbade Adam to eat of the forbidden fruit but at the same time God equipped Adam with free will. It should be said here though that it is not God’s will for man to exercise his free will the way he chooses. There is therefore a conflict here between God’s will and man’s will or desires as demonstrated by Adam disobeying God. So what then is God’s will?

In the simplest terms, God’s will for us is that we should serve Him by obeying His commands, not merely the Ten Commandments but rather the commandments of Christ as outlined in the New Testament. God’s will is for us to “Seek ye first the Kingdomof Godand His righteousness”(Matt 6:33). The interesting thing about this verse is that Jesus continues by saying that “……. and all these things shall be added unto you.” The “all these things” pertained to daily living as demonstrated by the previous scriptures:

31Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

The concept of seeking “God’s will for your life” therefore seems to be at cross purposes with what Jesus has said here in these verses. Jesus did not say that we should seek theKingdomofGodand His righteousness and then do something more but rather that once we make theKingdomofGodour priority “all these things” SHALL be added unto us. Why do these ministers and teachers therefore give believers the impression that they need to do something more than simply seeking theKingdomofGod? The concept of seeking God’s will for one’s life seems to me to be the direct opposite of what Christ said about not taking any thought for what we shall eat, drink or wear. Not only is it at odds with what Jesus said here but also with other scriptures as well as will be demonstrated below.

The Preacher for example says:

6Because to every purpose there is time and judgment, therefore the misery of man is great upon him. 7For he knoweth not that which shall be: for who can tell him when it shall be? (Ecc 8:6-7)

12For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them. (Ecc 9:12)

Against the backdrop of these scriptures how can one know “God’s will for their life”? As the preacher has demonstrated here you do not even know when your time (death) shall come let alone to know what will happen in the future. Does this not resolve back to what Jesus said about not taking thought for tomorrow and “sufficient unto the day the evil thereof? (Matt 6:34)”

We can learn even more from the Preacher in Ecc 9:

10Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

11I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

These particular verses are quite important to consider against what some pastors and teachers have been saying about seeking God’s will for one’s life. Firstly, it says in verse 10 “whatsoever thy hand findeth to do” as opposed to whatsoever we sought God’s will for our hands to do. In conjunction verse 11 made it clear that what our hands find to do is all down to time and chance rather than as a result of seeking God’s will for one’s life. Of course this is not meant to deny “God’s sovereign will” underpinning all this. For example, James demonstrated that if we desire to pursue a future endeavor we ought to prevail on ‘God’s will’ in allowing us to complete it:

13Go to now, ye that say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. James 4:13-15

The key verse here is “ye know not what shall be on the morrow”. To say that we can seek and know God’s will for what we shall do for tomorrow however seems to me to be somewhat presumptuous. The question here then is this: Do we reflect God’s will through our own desires and ambitions? Again, how can we say we have missed God’s will considering we know not what shall be for tomorrow? Of course with the benefit of hindsight we can have regrets about things we could have done or wished we had done in the past, but how do we know that it was even God’s will in the first place?

I believe God’s will for our lives is to seek first His Kingdom and His righteousness if we do we have not missed His will. The “in betweens” of what pertains to daily life does not matter and consequently I believe that teachers who teach the “God’s will for your life” doctrine are teaching a different gospel.

Advertisements

Comments

1. sawyer - September 15, 2011

This is yet another chance for all who read this to recognize God’s reality before our eyes…

I believe you have taken a great liberty in your interpretation of what Jesus was saying in the verse you quoted of “not taking thought for what you shall eat, drink, wear”, and that when we seek the Father’s will for us, “all these things would be added to you”. The point is that if we are seeking to be servants of our Heavenly Fathers, They will see to it we have our basic human needs. He also said that if we left all behind, Mother, Father, sister, brother, wife, husband, children, lands, houses for the Kingdom of God’s sake we would in the world to come have many times that “family” in that we will be forming a bond with His Family tree while breaking the ties to our human roots.

Now I’m not saying that God expects us to leave all behind when we haven’t been sent his representative in a face to face relationship as it is a KEY to do so, to transfer our human family love and connections to Him and we can’t learn to do that until we can do it to someone that is trustworthy to receive it and not abuse our giving of love in that way. If we continue to study the record, “HIS WORDS PAST” and apply them best we can in understanding of what Jesus upon return will require of us, then we are in good stead though can never assume we are.

Until he has arrived, making the Kingdom of God our priority is a full time job. It means waking up each day and asking God how we an be of service to them. It means going through our day looking for how God then open up opportunities to do his work. And it means continuing throughout the day in an asking mindset. Now another aspect of this that is huge has to do with the definition of what God considers our best offerring of service to Their will. It’s working on ourselves. It’s overcoming our human animal behaviors. Overcoming, means that they no longer command us. It’s like making a slave out of one’s own body. But whose rules do we follow to make our body the slave of our mind/soul? The record left by the most recent representative is the primary material to study and become as aware of the meaning of as is possible. We can not do that by only reading another’s translation. We need to pick up a Strongs concordance and/or equivilent and spend time everyday researching for ourselves what each verse seems to be saying. We should see a consistancy emerge even though we will have a hard time accepting all that we begin to see. Discomfort with what we begin to understand is a sign of what particular overcoming we have left to do.

I happen to know and can prove to anyone who is willing to take a good look, regardless of how unpopular it will be to do so, that the Kingdom of God already has sent it’s representatives and they have already gathered those that were ready to produce fruit, and harvested their souls that entailed discarding their own physical bodies that they knew without a doubt and by many proves was not them but was a temporary living suit of clothes they were wearing. They last used the names Ti and Do, the notes and Song of Rev 14. The White horse (applewhite) of Rev 6. The woman (Father) who gives birth to the male child (son) in Rev 12, and the Two Witnesses (Christs) in rev 11 thus the so called “second coming” that any can still believe in and seek further.

Hopeful_watcher - September 15, 2011

Sawyer, you go to great lengths to recruit people into knowing and accepting Applewhite’s teaching of Ti and Do. If you spent even half of that time spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ, Father Abba would smile favorably upon you. Jesus brings salvation, not any worldly representative of God. I won’t try and sway you away from Ti and Do because your mind is set, however if you put your focus in Jesus and seek the father and his son he will make your paths straight. God bless.

2. sawyer - September 15, 2011

I am constantly spreading the gospel of Jesus and His Father. I guess you havn’t watched any of my talks on revelations and the 4 gospels on youtube.com/user/3spm. And on my blog on sawyerhg.wordpress.com and on blogtalkradio.com/sawyer.

It is interesting that you as so many never actually respond to the things I say about Jesus, that is in response to what you have said about Jesus. Instead you critisize the fact that I believe and have a great deal of evidence that Ti and Do were actually the latest physical presense of the souls fsrom the kingdom of God last called the FAther and Jesus and before that the Lord and Moses.

I am open to changing my views of what Jesus said and meant but there is no general way to addressareas in which I am lacking Jesus true perspective thus need specifics. The devil is not in the details, in this way…the devil is in thegeneralities. It’s easy to take a few scriptures at face faclue and to build a story/essay from. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we are spreading the truth Jesus was portraying.

I don’t find fault in your doing what you want but when you include Jesus in it, it’s very important to present as complete a picture as you can and the facts are that few care to see the complete Jesus picture as it’s too upsetting and would reduce those that would follow what we say, the reason for a blog to begin with, though not the only reason as I know I will not have many followers and don’t want followers. I maintain no relationshiups with any who follow what I write/say/do and never ever plan to and have received many requests for extended relationships.

So can you tell me what I have said that is not preaching Jesus word directly or indirectly. I doubt you can bring up one real example. I know it’s hard to swallow something that challenges our entire life view. It’s still hard for me too but I can’t deny it is part of growth to change my mind (repent).

3. Hopeful_watcher - September 16, 2011

Sawyer, even Satan believes in Jesus so throwing his name in the mix does give you instant credibility.

Here is a question for you and be honest if you can. When you meet someone new who is open to spiritual discussions, which prospect makes you most excited? The prospect of spreading: 1) the gospel and saving grace of Jesus, or 2) sharing how God has sent Ti and Do as representatives of righteousness for the world.

(6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:6-7

4. Marianne Lordi - September 17, 2011

“There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death”.
Proverbs 14:12

Sawyer, it may seem right to you what you say and think, but sadly it is leading you to death. What you are saying is a foolish argument. You do not understand the truth because you do not belong to Christ.

sawyer - September 17, 2011

@Marianne Lordi – Isn’t it interesting that you JUDGE/Measure my destiny (death) when Jesus said, NOT to take that position! Then you call what I say “foolish”, another thing Jesus warned against telling someone, on top of which you give no specifics for me to consider or respond to in my defense. Then you tell me I don’t understand the truth, but don’t give even one example and then on top of that claim I don’t belong to Christ. Didn’t Jesus say that one could only serve (belong to) ONE MASTER, God (Theos=Dieties) or Mammon(Treasure, wealth (material or intellectual/spiritual)? Therefore as you say I’m not seeking to serve/bdlong to Christ, are you not saying that I am serving His opposite, whose personna would be Satan? And you base this judgement of me on what criteria, that I believe Ti and Do are the Father and Son returned as promised? Further, to what are you referring that proverb to. Don’t I deserve something more than idle accusations and threats? By the way, my postings are never ever an attempt to change anyone’s mind. I am simply providing “bread” for those that are hungry to choose to chew on to see if they like it. And it’s not my bread, though I enjoy having it. It came from my Heavenly Father and I can prove how it matches 100% with the same Bread Jesus was providing.

sawyer - September 17, 2011

I’m not good at tests like this but I will try and I certainly can be honest and have zero reason not to be.

As you already have tasted in my writings, I tend to want to analyse every word and to put the terms in a more generic form. After all, Jesus did not use those exact words because he didn’t speak English and we all know that the language(s) Jesus spoke, Aramiaic as a dialect of Hebrew, has as many nuances as other languages thus requires a choice by the translators and as we know where there is choice there is often bias, though I do trust that God has seen to it thatwe have an accurate enough record of what Jesus actually said, which includes lots of cross references. However I don’t Trust God was working through Paul who participated in murdering Christians (Stephen), so unless I see direct cross referencable thoughts/ideas with what Jesus actually said, I don’t trust Paul’s writings to represent the genuine Holy Spirit. And there are many examples in Paul’s letters that seem to me even the opposite of what Jesus taught and one of those topics is “saving grace”. I can’t find that Jesus ever used the term though John and Luke uses it as indicative of “joy, pleasure, thanks, etc.” Now I do believer Paul is using it as God’s forgiveness of sins being God’s favour/mercy on us and Jesus does talk about his having the power to forgive sins and directs us to forgive one our “brother” seventy times seventy times. when jesus used a family term he was speaking of His family not the human family.

So, I don’t get excited telling someone that Jesus will forgive your sins, though when someone wrongs me if they ask for my forgiveness I do genuinely forgive them, though I know I could be tested in that based on what they may have done.

I do enjoy sharing what Jesus said. I don’t know how to compare with sharing what Ti and Do said. I see them evidencing the same “fruit” by which we can know them. Ti and Do quoted Jesus but more to say, like about the Kingdom of God’s reality.

re: perversion of the truth as told by Jesus the annointed by God, as I hardly ever saw Paul say, “Jesus said…”, which he could have received from Peter or Barnabas or others who were actually with Jesus, thus I would like to see examples of how some were perverting the truth Jesus expressed. I can site how Paul unknowingly perverted what Jesus said or intented either by commission or ommision.

Like I said, I’m bad at tests.

Hopeful_watcher - September 17, 2011

There is only ONE test and the Lord has made the answer easy.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life.”

Know and believe this and then everything more than that is a waste of our time.

Hopeful_watcher - September 17, 2011

Your soul is in grave danger my friend. Don’t take our word for it. Seek the Lord’s face with sincerity, humble yourself before Him and say that we are weak and without knowledge before Him, repent of any and all sins that you know and even the ones you don’t know (EVEN the ones that you think were not sins but in your ignorance did them anyway) and then ask the Lord to show you where your thoughts are in error. Most importantly ask this in “Jesus’s Holy name who humbled himself as a man and subjected himself to the cross for the forgiveness of our sins and the salvation of our soul.

Then wait quietly for the answer.

5. sawyer - September 18, 2011

You appear to me thoroughy steeped in a protection mechanism that seems to have you think you have all the answers. In a very short time this will all be moot. Reality is about to set in for all of us whether we like it or not. Most will not know what’s happening as they will be swept away in various environmental catastrophe’s. Others will be hunted down if they don’t tow the party line. If this is allowed to continue, all humans will die physically but it will be stopped at a certain point to allow some to live, though I don’t know who these will be. I don’t assume anything and to be frank I think my vehicle will die before then. or be killed . Then Do and his students will return but this time not as a “son of man”, not “begotten” but in the way Christians say they expect him, but as most did not choose to consider him when he was physically among us and did not choose to examine what he said and did after he left, they will not recognize him but will think it’s a space alien and many hearts will fail for fear at that time.The governments will be unable to combat Him as their presense will turn off their electricity. I suspect Batteries won’t even work. Do and students came to me in a dream the same day that the US Southwest experienced a huge fireball that they can’t explain as it did not resemble any known manmade or natural object. I don’t know if this was related to my dream. But in the dream, they were in eyeshot. I guarantee and am 100% certain that the only ones that will know who it is, are those who acknowledge Ti and Do as the Father and Son returned. I know there will not be a long haired beared with flowing robe being suspended among the clouds. That’s fairy tale thinking. Not that the Kingdom of God couldnt’ do that. They could if they wanted to. It’s that it doesn’t serve their agenda to do such a silly stunt when all those who insist they can see and are saved are expecting such. So, it’s been interesting trying to open some of your eyes but you seem to insist keeping them tightly closed. How do I know that? No matter what I say, how much detail and scripture I quote, you and others never ever challenge my interpretation or offer me another way of seeing it. This is because you don’t have a challenge or another way to see it, so instead of considering that I may be on to something, you reply with some off kilter bible quote that you don’t even understand to begin with. You just say the words. I am not upset with you all for this as like I’ve said, perhaps had I not been given such a huge chunk of information from Ti and Do I would be just as in the dark, though thinking I’m filled with light. And I don’t think I am filled with light as I still have not overcome all my humanness but at least it’s in progress.

Hopeful_watcher - September 18, 2011

I guess by this response you won’t try what I suggested. I am sorry to hear that as you would be surprised as to what might be revealed to you. May the Lord reveal to you what human wisdom can not, for our intellect will lead us astray. I will give you the last word as I don’t have the energy to continue this futile conversation.

6. Henry - September 19, 2011

Sawyer,
In future please ensure that your comments relate directly to the posts you are commenting on. I will not tolerate you hijacking posts in order to promote your “heaven’s gate” heresy, as that is what it is.

It seems you have been decieved by these two characters that you claim are the “two witnesses” and who you also claim to be God and Jesus. I do not know who these characters are, for all I care they could be agents of the devil, but let me tell you why they could not be God and Jesus. Jesus made clear in Matt 24 the following:

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

If you are saying that two people came to earth claiming to be God and Jesus then you have been deceived – doesn’t matter what supernatural abilities they may demonstrate. Even Satan and his angels are able to transform themselves as angels of light and can quote scriptures. These characters are not the two witnesses of Revelation 12 either. They do not fulfil the criteria nor anything that pertains to the prophesy surrounding them. The two witnesses finish their prophesy at the time of the Seventh Seal and around the blowing of the trumpet by the 5th angel (of the 7 angels who had the last 7 plagues) who were to execute God’s wrath in the day of judgement. The Seventh Seal has not yet been fulfilled so for you to claim that the two witnesses have already performed their task comes of great deception. If these two claim to be the two witnesses of God from Revelations 11 then I am afraid these are nothing but lying spirits who have deceived you. If anything does not conform to the word of God, the Bible, then it needs to be rejected.

7. Marianne Lordi - September 19, 2011

Hi Henry, you are so right on but sawyer is not going to see them. It is like casting pearls before swine. Even though you give the truth, he cannot see it.

Sawyer:

You have misquoted and misinterpreted Scripture. Jesus did not say that we are not to judge. If that were so, why would he say that you will know and thus judge a tree by its fruit. A bad tree cannot bear good fruit. That is a judgment. What he did say that as you judge, so shall you be judged. So if you are doing the same thing that you accuse another of, take the log from your own eye first. and then you will be better equipped to take the splinter from your neighbor’s eye. Most people stop at the beginning of that verse and don’t finish it as you have done. That is why you are deceived in your thinking.

8. Henry - September 20, 2011

Hi Marianne,
I have tolerated some of Sawyer’s postings in the hope that by engaging with this blog and other commentators he may come to the knowledge of truth and wake up out of his deception but for the moment he doesn’t want to see.

The scriptures said:

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1 Tim 4:1-2

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 2 Tim 2:4

I believe this is what has happened in this case. I can only pray that Sawyer will repent of this heresy and turn to Christ.

sawyer - September 20, 2011

You said I “misquoting and misinterpreting. I did make a mistake for sure. I didn’t include the quote, so in that way I did not quote exactly. However your misinterpreting accusation has no grounding in scripture, but at least you offerred me a concrete scriptural challenge instead of just railing against me personally.

So let’s examine that segment of Matthew chapter 7:

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

The word NOT is there twice, in other words Don’t JUDGE but what does Jesus mean here. Here is a definitions of the two words Judge and Judgement from Strong’s Concordance:

JUDGE = 2919 krinw krino kree’-no
properly, to distinguish, i.e. decide (mentally or judicially); by implication, to try, condemn, punish:–avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

JUDGEMENT = 2917 krima krima kree’-mah
from krinw – krino 2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against (“crime”)):–avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment.

Which of these defintions most seems to apply here given the rest of that segment of the talk Jesus was giving?

Was Jesus telling his followers, NOT to DISTINGUISH, DECIDE, CHOOSE, all personal mental applications or not to CONDEMN, PUNISH, AVENGE, DAMN which is what the Judge in a courtroom does, but in Jesus courtroom we all know that God the Father is the supreme judge, the position some who call themselves Christians take against others, the position that only God can hold, thus in affect by taking that condemnation, some are declaring themselves God (the Supreme Judge) and we all know that The big advesary to those who love God, in the person of Lucifer and the other fallen angels certainly believe themselves judges and whose voice those that exercise such condemnation of others are allowing to inhabit their body/brain/mind but worse than just that, but in expressing it to another, which being directly against God is the definition of blasphemy and the only unforgiveable sin in Jesus words.

Luk 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Note: The Holy Ghost/Spirit IS to us best represented in what JESUS actually said and intended.

So this is all very serious talk as we all know that Jesus isn’t fooled by people using his name and as you and others said, quoting scriptures, but he is very interested in those that do/act/think/say, as best they can, which includes willing to change their mind in accordance with EVERYTHING Jesus said. The Father and Jesus are the ones to determine who’s tree has good fruit and whose tree has evil fruit.

Now of course there are many examples where Jesus says to engage those that we determine are not following Jesus guidelines/laws, sayings but none of them instruct us to tell them they are damned if they don’t do this or condemned to hell if they don’t do thus and so as has been leverated against me by many who count themselves good Christians when my only offense to them is that I believe in Ti and Do, whom they fear to hear about, as it says in Rev. chapter 11 about the Two Witnesses.

Now if examining Ti and Do freightens you because Jesus said;

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Here is perhaps the best simple test criteria:

Mar 9:38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
Mar 9:39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
Mar 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

Luk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

So if you do examine anything from Ti and Do or anyone else for that matter, compare always with things Jesus said. However, if you take what Jesus said at face value or according to what someone else told you he said, without doing your own research using the tools of Strongs and cross referencing with all the usages of any one word, then you are choosing to sabatoge your own growth as a Jesus believer.

Granted, until one has done the research, to leverage an opinion against someone else may sound good to others who have not done the research, but will it be in service to Jesus?

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Thus before railing against someone I suggest seeking the WILL of Jesus’ and our Heavenly Father, then take your best shot and listen to any tiny voice that indicates you might have been wrong and examine what you said further and seek to make amends with anyone you may have offended. If they are made of the same stuff as God the Father/Jesus they will understand and be forgiving. I’m NOT saying this because I want anyone’s apology for judging/condemning me (and without ANY grounds I have seen). It’s just what Jesus said to do.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

So what is it you have against me? What have I said that is against Jesus, against his Holy Spirit, the word of God?

9. Marianne Lordi - September 20, 2011

Hi Henry, I pray for Sawyer too. He is deceived and definitely not into sound doctrine. I could refute all that he just said but what good would it do. Also, sounds like he does not understand the Trinity in that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the God. He is very confused.

sawyer - September 21, 2011

Marianne, You sound like a Catholic with the trinity talk. Regardless of whether you are or not, I was raised a Catholic. When I was 13 I told people I wanted to be a priest. Then in “confirmation” studies I was sooooo bored. They were preparing me for a 50 question test that I needed to pass to be confirmed. I was too young to see their charade that they so believed in. 1) Where is God. Answer: God is everywhere and sure the trinity was there somewhere with the memorization of the apostles creed. It later became very, very interesting how the Catholics teach/practice direct disobedience to even the simplist commandments from Jesus. Don’t pray out loud, do it in private, he said, in one’s closet in secret and your Father will answer you in secret. Group prayer is a way to steal an individual away from their personal relationship with their Heavenly Father. They have to be led in how to pray. But that’s just one of dozens of direct blasphemies – teaching ANTI – Christ/GOD. Another; Don’t use vain repetitions in prayer: Note the way so many use the “Our Father”. I’d wager 90% or more of Christians don’t have a clue what they are really saying in that prayer. And the Hail Mary, that’s something I’d bet Jesus hates to hear people equating with what he taught. Since when did Mary acheive saint status and for what. Jesus even said he didn’t count her as his family (mother) as his family were those that did the will of his Father in Heaven. And they say those rosary beads over and over and over, when Jesus said not to pray with lots of words. (I’m paraphrasing but you can look these up and see I’ve got the intention pretty darn good). Then there was a big one. Jesus said “call no man your FAther, you have one Father who art in Heaven, yet they call their priest Holy Father’s, or is that just the big kahuna in the capital of the financial empire of Satan (one of the many). And where did Jesus say to do anything they do with all their rituals and dogma and genuflecting (sp?) and telling kids they really do some magic there to covert the bread into body and the wine into his blood. Blood, blood, blood – vampires, walking dead who think they are so filled with god’s grace. Lying hypocrits and the truth is, it’s not at all only the catholics that are anti-jesus-Christ. So, poor old soul sawyer, he is so confused. He doesn’t even know about the trinity. Are you hiding behind your computer? God can see you and can hear what you say to me. You will be held accountible, accusing me while having zero evidence. Sounds like a all too familiar story. Someone comes along and challenges the religious who are filled with their sense of self holiness and piety with their proper talk. I admit, having to calm down some. So if you are trying to get me upset, you have, but I suppose you don’t know what you are saying. You think you are acting jesus like, I suppose in the way he called a spade a spade to the religious of his day. But I have shared enough with you that you have had a healthy chance. I’d bet you haven’t asked God the Father in Heaven about Ti and Do or the Heaven’s Gate group or little ole me, Sawyer, student who flunked out of Ti and Do’s classroom but has been reinstated as long as I seek to offer HIM service. So I am not angry at you but what you allow to come out of your mouth I am angry with as I know without a doubt it’s not from the mind of the one you read about named Jesus of Nazareth.

So here is my final post to you unless you actually ask me a question:

Here’s what I think will happen in the near future. There will continue to be reports of objects in space coming closer that are behaving very unusual in that some at NASA and other agencies, China, Japan, EU, etc. think it’s an alien invasion. This is part of the reason govn’t and the private sector are working so hard to take every drop of money they can to buy the research, materials and labour to create underground “cities”. Now you may think this is foolishness but I KNOW this is going on and has in earnest since the 1950’s, though has escalated in the 1990’s and is operating full steam ahead today. Obama’s reading of psalm 46 may seem like a nice thing to say for 9/11, but I look at EVERYTHING. Do I believe everything is what it seems to be or what it might be. No. I just observe and after over 40 years of observation, but escalated big time as of 2000 and a great deal of seeking the Holy Spirit from my Heavenly Father (as jesus said to pray to his and our Father, did he not) (which you can ask him about me and He will give you an indicator of my service to him) He has opened up many scriptures to me in a way no one else I’m aware of demonstrates and believe it or not I am open to other’s revealing things about the Father and His Kingdom. In fact our conversation and with Henry and that hopefull watcher have all served to open my mind further to scriptures as I try to research the best replies I can give to give you all the best chance to hear that tiny voice inside you that would say…could it be…, then requiring you to do the work to dive in more or not.

I don’t know if Elenin due to arrive at perahelion this month on the 27th will be a significant influnece of global events but this planet is about to experience a time of trouble like has never been seen before and this will all occur very, very soon. But whether it’s related to the comet as one of the 7 angels or the 4 angels or not is irrelevant. At some point when most that have no mind of God in them, have died from man made or environmental disasters, to include all the diseases humans have stimulated, we will SEE somehow the face of ….Do and his students. I don’t know if they will project the images of the bodies they once had, like a movie projector that will show on TV’s or they will have a way to send us their image by thought. Now I could be wrong about this happening but at this point feel it’s in the plan. Many will wish they weren’t alive as seeing that face will be so freightening to them. And many will simply die at that moment demonstrating that they had not come to terms with Do before then, otherwise they would feel his love. His face has been seen by millions as of today and you can see it on youtube. You have the chance right now to take a tiny leap of faith to at least see his face as it was in the exit video’s he put out. He talks strong in his exit video’s but that is because this world is so dominated by the Luciferian fallen space alien weeds having programmed most humans to hate the real Kingdom of God.

Anyone who waits until that specific day and hour to get to know Do may be too late to decide to get to know him then. Once your vehicle dies I know it’s too late to change you mind/ways.

I noticed Henry didn’t approve my comment that outlined Chapter 11 of revelations. I will post it on my site if you or anyone else wants to see it. sawyerhg.wordpress.com

No need to say anything more to me but if you do it might be best to say it direct to sawyerhg@yahoo.com as I don’t know that I will continue to check this blog, but it doesn’t matter. You have no need for me. It’s all between you and your Father who art in Heaven.

sawyer - September 21, 2011

Henry, I noticed you did not approve my last reply to you where I outlined a synopsis of those called Ti and Do. You had said you knew nothing of them so I gave you a bit, and then added a verse by verse analysis of Rev. 11 that is strictly scriptural and uses Strongs to document.

It’s wierd being accused of heresy without any examples. How would you feel if someone accused you of murder and rape and robbery but never said who you killed, raped or robbed. That’s not very fair in our free land.

But suit yourself and you might want to see the end part of my last comment to maryann. I won’t bother you further unless one of your readers asks me a question, at least until I see another of your posts, n which case I may respond again. But perhaps I’ll cancel my subscription as you I’m sure with.

10. Henry - September 21, 2011

Sawyer,
You accuse others of judging you for your beliefs yet here you are judging Catholics. How so? In any event I did not see a reason for you to bring up all this issue about catholic doctrine when now of this is in view in this discussion.

If you do not want to continue to check this blog that is your perogative. I did not approve the last post because it seems from the outset of you posting on here your aim is to promote your heavens gate view particular in respect of your belief that these two who founded your group are the two witnesses of Revelations 11. However I have put forward scriptural proof as to why this cannot be so. See my lastest post addressing some of the issues surrounding your group. If it is up to you if you want to continue down this destructive path or to turn and repent from this heretical doctrines. However, please do not continue to use this forum as a “recruitment ground” for suicide canditates – as that is what your group stands for. By committing suicide people are dying in their sins and I do not want to have anything to do with such heretical doctrine. If you want to share on matters of the faith as outlined in the Bible feel free. But if your interest is to promote those whom you call the two witnesses, when scripture makes clear they could not possibly be, then I do not want to hear it. This is why I unapprove your posts as I see fit.

May the Lord cause His light to shine upon us that we may discern His will.

11. sawyer - September 21, 2011

I let loose on the Catholics with SPECIFIC ANTI JESUS DOCTRINE. There is NO QUESTION on that, but I will debate that with you point by point. I only bring that up because the person named maryann challenged me on understanding the Trinity. So what is wrong with responding to another of your believers who slam me.

Now, as for the word judgement. You should review what that word means. It means condemnation of a PERSON as you and maryann have done by specifically calling me a hereitc that I remind you so called Christians murdered in the not too distant past, again without evidence. So I did not JUDGE you, nor have I JUDGED Maryann, but YOU by the evidence that I have on this blog have directly said in so many words that I was a heretic and was going to hell if I don’t believe as you say. Now I see you have started a post on your view on heaven’s gate. So I guess I am not authorized by you to say all I want about whatever you said there. This way, your regular readers who I could care less about whether they believe in what I say about Ti and Do or not, as I don’t work for you or to convert you. I am simply a messenger, nothing more in this regard. So I will respect your request to not bring up heavens gate or the two witnesses on yoru blog posts but I will continue to address your posts with scriptural based debate if I choose and if you never approve my post replys then I’ll just post them on my blog so others can see what you are saying so people can judge (discern) for themselves.

Lucifer has twisted every word and every law and every idea that the Kingdom of God has given to humans over history yet only the brave are willing to consider this fact.

Now for your refute of Ti and Do as the Two witnesses that you moreorless have said is impossible, you are again stating a mistruth as truth because even Jesus admitted that with God all things are possible, but perhaps you don’t agree with Jesus on that score.

Additionally I am curious. Where do you stand on the death penalty accross this land, in particular with the troy anthony davis case in Georgia?

sawyer - September 21, 2011

Also, Ti and Do and their “heaven’s gate” group/cult are not promoters of suicide in any shape or form. That is media hype and fear mongering. In religions there are those that choose to give more of themselves to God. Some join a mission and help people who are starving or sick. They are giving their lives for the lives and well being of others as they are subject to those same conditions. Does that mean that those of the religion who don’t go so far as to put their comfort and well being on the line day in and day out are lessor in the eyes of God. Jesus spoke to people on their level, parables to some while to his close disciples he revealed many of the mysterins of the kingdom of heaven. Not all his followers witnessed his ascension. In rev. 14 there are TWO harvests of souls though all are harvested by a sickle – their stalks are cut down or their grapes (fruit) is cut off. That’s the soul taken from the body which takes place when the body dies. When it’s time to leave it’s time to leave. EVERYONE that knows the details of Ti and Do’s 24 year physical presence on Earth, 3 1/2 yrs spent in their direct prophecy saw them ever, ever, ever manipulate directly or indirectly nor abuse in any shape or form, mentally or physically, nor be disrespectful of any of their students. I am a witness to that and there are others that are as well. But you don’t know that history do you. You don’t know all the members of their group that they disallowed from being in the group because they didn’t feel they were ready to go the distance, and by the way they didn’t know they would be exiting by laying down their bodies until around 1994 while I was still there. They did know that the formula was to “give your all” – that’s body, mind, soul, and strength consistant with jesus and moses.

Why don’t you get the facts before casting stones. They are available but not if you only go to the largely secular media or the new agers or the synagouges of satan. Now again, I have not JUDGE/condemned YOU. That’s not my choice or within my jurisdiction.

But Ti and Do don’t have a doctrine of suicide for anyone any more than Jesus did unless you think you are the body alone as the body is required to give eventually but not to first time believers which people like yourselves would be applying to be if you decided to take a REAL look at all Ti and Do said and how it matches 100% all Jesus and Moses stood for with their lives.

Suicide is not seeking the will of our Heavenly Father. When Jesus spoke of life, most times he was speaking of the souls life and he said to fear those that can take that which is accomplished by getting people to jump to erroneous assumed conclusions that rule out who is and who is not working for the kingdom of God.

12. Henry - September 22, 2011

According to you,
“Lucifer has twisted every word and every law and every idea that the Kingdom of God has given to humans over history yet only the brave are willing to consider this fact”
But my question to you is this: are you telling me that Lucifer has twisted the word of the Bible and that we shouldn’t trust it? If this is so why should we trust any teacher then that comes to us claiming to be from God? You yourself said you don’t trust Paul’s writing yet we should trust some man and woman who come and tell us that they are the Two Witnesses from the very book that you are asking us not trust.
You are twisting scriptures to suit your own ends when you attempt to defend your position on the two witnesses by using Christ’s words that all things are possible with God. This is a deceitful use of scripture in trying to argue that I stated a mistruth when I said that Ti and Do could not possibly be the two witnesses.
Indeed Christ said that with God all things are possible – Christ said this in response to the disciples who asked Him, “who then can be saved?” But here is impossibility for you to ponder. Jesus said that heaven and earth shall pass away but my words shall not pass away (Matt 24:35). Therefore it is impossible for God to change His course of action from what He has already laid out in Scripture. Therefore, if Jesus tells us clearly that we should stay clear from anyone who claims to be Him because His coming will be as the lighting flashes from the east to the west then we can be clear that Jesus will never change and do something contrary to His word. For Ti and Do to claim to be God and Jesus therefore amounts to nothing but deceit and lies. Jesus will NEVER come to the earth before His coming in the heavens as the lightening flashes from east to west. I am therefore not the one who doesn’t agree with Jesus Christ’s words, it is you. You seem to selective agree with scripture on some points and ignore clear scriptural teachings on other points.
I do not see the point of you asking me about Anthony Davis but I will indulge you. I am not an American and didn’t know anything about this till you mentioned it. My personal view however since you asked me is that I do not support the death penalty in no way shape or form. I believe in incarceration but not the death penalty. Thou shalt not kill! If you take someone’s life then you do not give them the chance to repent of their sins since there is no repentance in the grave. I hope this answers your question.

13. Henry - September 22, 2011

According to you the Heaven’s Gate cult does not promote suicide but how many ways are there to spell suicide. Let’s call a spade a spade and not dress it up with words. You people use terms like “shelling” this suite of clothes or this body/flesh – to take on new bodies on the mother ship (spaceship), or promotion to the next level to be with God, or harvesting of souls etc to explain the fact that 39 of your followers committed suicide in 1997. Whether you want to call it shedding clothes or body or whatever term you want to use in our English Language definition it is called SUICIDE. Do not let the devil deceive you. These people took their own lives not knowing their eternal destiny in what you have claimed to be a “harvesting of souls”. Jesus Christ Himself will perform the harvest in His due time in that great and terrible day of the Lord when the heavens shall depart as a scroll and the firmament shall burn with fervent heat. The last time I checked this event has not yet occurred. Believers in Christ await this day – they do not take it upon themselves to “harvest” their own souls. None of this fallacy is consistent with Jesus and Moses as you claim – Indeed we are to give our all to Christ to perform His service but there is nothing in scripture that tells a believer to literally kill themselves as a service to Christ. This is heresy and deception. In stead we are told in scripture that our bodies are the temple of the Living God and we are to present it as living sacrifice (not dead sacrifice) to Him.

Here is another deceptive quote by you concerning what Jesus supposedly said:

“he said to fear those that can take that which is accomplished by getting people to jump to erroneous assumed conclusions that rule out who is and who is not working for the kingdom of God.”

No body is jumping to erroneous conclusions here about who is working or not working for the kingdom of God. Perhaps you are working for a different kingdom of a different god but clearly not the Kingdom of the Living God. Let me tell you what the true Jesus said –

Matt 7
13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matt 24
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
You are doing the very same thing that Jesus strictly warns us not to do – i.e., to entertain anyone who claims to be Christ before the appointed time when Christ shall put in His appearance.
I leave you with this last word of Proverbs 16.
Prov 16
25There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.


Sorry comments are closed for this entry